What makes a tarot interpretation valid?

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I have always used the Rider Waite, except for a few times I had to buy a new Ceremonial Magick deck (lost one), which I loved.
I was involved with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn as a potential Neophyte, and was in Fraternity of the Hidden Light and in Builders of the Adytum. Since Case learned from the Golden Dawn before expanding his Gematria, Kaballah and Tarot path and books, which made all three along the same manner of interpretation in some ways, the latter two very close. Regardie and others had different interpretations which went pretty much back to Waites interpretations.

But most tarot interpretations, particularly with these prodigies in the LHP, I have zero idea where their interpretation comes from and have a hard time accepting it then as valid. How close is the teachings on the Thoth deck to the HOGD and BOTA interpretations?

Ive read the ONA Sinister Tarot interpretation, which was interesting. I've read Bill Stafford and a few other folks, however, I cannot understand some peoples interpretations, or why the ones being read accepted them without question, as the interpretation doesn't even match the picture on the card (which is difficult with some decks. I honestly think most of these tarot readers should use Wangs Golden Dawn deck as their first deck.

 

[KjEno186]

This is a good question. I don't think the deck matters. How you feel about the deck, now that would have an impact.

I've been slowly reading The Doctrine and Ritual of High Magic by Eliphas Levi (translation by Greer and Mikituk), and he connected the Hebrew alphabet of 22 letters to the major arcana of tarot decks available in the 19th Century. I have an Oswald Wirth tarot deck by Lo Scarabeo that includes Levi's chosen Hebrew letters for each card next to the name of the card at the bottom. I tend to prefer Levi's choice in this regard over the changes made with the English decks in the early 20th Century, when they assigned Aleph to The Fool. In TdM, Aleph belongs to The Magician. Then again, in my quite humble opinion, any forced associations are as meaningless as the claims that the tarot itself was part of some perfect "book" that has since become imperfect and vulgar.

According to Dr Yoav Ben-Dov, everything in a tarot reading session is a sign. I've read that Dion Fortune recommended at least three readings on the same question. If the answers seemed to flow between the readings, there was a good chance it was accurate. If the results appeared to be mismatched and contradictory, then perhaps that wasn't a good time for a reading and the querent should ask again later. Other factors might include bypassing one's psychic censor, perhaps using sigils which one has "forgotten" the meaning of to contain the question. Entering a trance state or gnosis might help, as well as avoiding a lust for results.

How do I know? I don't. I just do a daily "for fun" tarot reading. Practice, Practice, Practice!

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

9kay, but there has to be a base standard of meanings, otherwise you can get the most ridiculous reading. I've seen some which literally stumped me as to how they reached those conclusions. I guess Waite likewise as Case could be wrong, but they have substantial proof to back their claims, such as gematria.

 

[hungry_ghost]

9kay, but there has to be a base standard of meanings, otherwise you can get the most ridiculous reading.

Anyone can pick up a deck and memorize the meaning of each card. Not everyone has the ability to practice divination accurately. When you're reading a spread you're using your intuition. So your interpretation mostly likely will be different from what the companion book says.

If a deck seems ridiculous to you then it's not meant for you. Every deck has its own vibe, feeling and personality.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Anyone can pick up a deck and memorize the meaning of each card. Not everyone has the ability to practice divination accurately. When you're reading a spread you're using your intuition. So your interpretation mostly likely will be different from what the companion book says.

If a deck seems ridiculous to you then it's not meant for you. Every deck has its own vibe, feeling a

Anyone can pick up a deck and memorize the meaning of each card. Not everyone has the ability to practice divination accurately. When you're reading a spread you're using your intuition. So your interpretation mostly likely will be different from what the companion book says.

If a deck seems ridiculous to you then it's not meant for you. Every deck has its own vibe, feeling and personality.

Sorry but have to disagree.
I understand a lot of young folks are on the demons only train, and take their divination as gospel truth.
What I'm saying is that people who dismiss former magicians and their interpretations are in danger of being fools, because then your "intuition" could speak absolute bullcrap.
There were interpretations, symbols, astrological associations, goetia and Shem assignment. All of that is garbage due to intuition? Sorry, disagree.

 

[KjEno186]

there has to be a base standard of meanings, otherwise you can get the most ridiculous reading. I've seen some which literally stumped me as to how they reached those conclusions. I guess Waite likewise as Case could be wrong, but they have substantial proof to back their claims, such as gematria.

I don't know right or wrong standards. RWS decks, especially those with modern themes and imagery, don't resonate with me, personally. My first tarot deck was a classic RWS simply because I didn't know anything else existed at the time. I'd guess most people in the English speaking world have chosen and use that system because it's all they know. I lost it in a move and didn't feel compelled to buy another one like it.

How about my first introductory reading from my Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot:
"Hello, Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot. I offer thanks and ask how we are at this hour?"
I shuffled and drew three cards:
Wheel of Fortune, Empress, Sun
My interpretation?
Empress=Dame, Wheel of Fortune=Fortune's Wheel Tarot, Sun=Joy, Health... Welcome?
Thus: "Dame Fortune welcomes me/us."
Is that accurate? Someone else might say differently, but that interpretation felt spot on to me.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Well, I guess it's good Case wrote twenty books on tarot in his day, he would hardly survive as a newcomer these days.

 

[hungry_ghost]

What I'm saying is that people who dismiss former magicians and their interpretations are in danger of being fools, because then your "intuition" could speak absolute bullcrap.

Well I didn't say everyone who uses their "intuition" is accurate. If following in other people's footsteps is more your thing then more power to you but I think it's a bit foolish to think that your way is the only right way.

There were interpretations, symbols, astrological associations, goetia and Shem assignment. All of that is garbage due to intuition?

Never said it was garbage. If that's your thing and it works for you then that's fantastic.

I just don't think this is a subject that's set in stone and there's too many purists out there who think it is. You can't be an absolutist with this stuff.

 

[KjEno186]

Well, I guess it's good Case wrote twenty books on tarot in his day, he would hardly survive as a newcomer these days.

I just happened to find one of Paul Foster Case's books on archive.org. Tarot A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages. Now if I can find some time to read it... I have been very disappointed with dogmatic tarot books before, such as The Way of the Tarot by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Tarot of the Magicians by Oswald Wirth.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Fundamentals of Tarot is great .. gives you an exercise for a week for each major key.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Also to be clear, Im not calling anyone foolish or a fool. It is true not to put all your eggs in one basket, yes.

 

[Roma]

One of the responses in the I Ching is a refusal to answer a too persistent questioner. If the Tarot does not have such an option, what does it say?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Interesting. I would think, as someone suggested per Dion Fortune to deal three times and see how persistent one or more cards may show in th three.

The Minor Arcana, Court Cards, Aces, and Major Keys all have names/titles. I would think such an option would be in one of the Minors - perhaps "Lord of Interference"? I am not sure what minor card that is, but corresponds to Shem Angels Umabel and Iahhel. (#61/62). Might be 8 of swords come to think of it.

 

[Mider2009]

Idk what you mean by Valid

the cards are a tool, as are runes, a scrying tool, pendulum. They help you access your subconscious or collective unconscious and messages there in

deck can be more useful for certain questions while another for another.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Valid meaning the reader actually knows something and the cards drawn are articulately relavent to the reading question.

 

[Mider2009]

It’s up to the reader n how gifted he or she is

Dion Fortune says there’s an Archangel ruling over the Tarot, she went as far as to say that one should learn Tarot, Astrology, etc to actually know the arts properly.

As for valid...I’ve known so called expert readers who blew smoke up my ass from not so well known ones who were very gifted.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Okay, okay, so what the basic premiss is then is that Paul Foster Case, Edward Arthur Waite and others were wrong in their interpretation.
Really, you think you know an art, then someone who's buddies with Lucifer makes all your tarot knowledge useless in a heartbeat, and you can derive whatever reading you wish with absolutely nothing but your intuitive gift to back it all up. I guess Case when researching Gematria, Kabballistic associations, colors, sounds, aromas, symbols, astrological detail, etc was all baseless then.
Wow, mind blowing fer shur...

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I think I will still stick with what I know of Tarot, as my intuition seems to be off. At least knowledge can be expounded on, Josephine McCarthy has a book pin Tarot Skills for the 21st Century, which seems to be to the point.
Still, I like stuff backing up readings I give to others with no intuition used until a tough part of a reading rears up its head, and then I use my intuition on it, not from the start.

 

[KjEno186]

Okay, okay, so what the basic premiss is then is that Paul Foster Case, Edward Arthur Waite and others were wrong in their interpretation.

No, not wrong. If you believe it to be so, then it is so, for you. Let me clarify my point of view. I think that Eliphas Levi was incorrect to pin Hebrew letters to the tarot in the first place. Therefore, I do not believe in any system that claims to be the One True Way of assigning additional meanings to the tarot, which can include but is not limited to elements, astrology, and the tree of life. I can and may, however, choose to use Hebrew with the tarot trumps. I can and may also choose to the Latin alphabet in association with tarot trumps. I can and may even use Ouranian Barbaric with tarot if need be to bypass my psychic censor. This is what I believe, when I choose to believe it, and I reserve the right to decide to change that belief as needed.

It matters not to me that Levi or Case or Waite claimed authority in their times and places. If my inner rationalist cannot get past something they claim, then I must hold contradictory thoughts as an unresolved binary until such time as my subconscious mind is able to resolve it into a ternary. I do not reject anything, no matter how absurd it may seem on its face, because sometimes the old ceremonial types laid traps. That being said, magic has grown and changed. I'm drawing on knowledge from all available sources. I've learned a great deal from Levi, and will no doubt learn more as I continue to read his book on ceremonial magic. My preferred tarot deck is by Paul Huson, a writer on witchcraft. I enjoy the writings of John Michael Greer, a Druid and ceremonial magician.

I could go on, but my point is, the KEY is in YOU. If ceremonial precision is what you must have to achieve a desired result, then so be it. It doesn't matter what my opinion on the matter is.

 

[Roma]

Dion Fortune says there’s an Archangel ruling over the Tarot

So here is the key to accurate reading: the clarity of your relationship with the over-lighting entity