Who cares and who doesn’t?

[Rora]

Here’s a weird question: when I read Western magical texts or plan to do rituals, I always wonder if the entities mentioned/evoked actually give a flying f**k about me, a person some gazillion miles away from their main sphere of influence, and who is not related to their “chosen” in any way, shape or form. Yeah, I’ve been told that archetypes carry across cultures, but how far, really? And what about those who don’t have counterparts?

Post automatically merged: Mar 6, 2024

I’m always slightly envious of the folks who can say that they’re related to Vikings and celts (Wicca & paganism) or the “chosen people” (for the western occultism), because then the spirits might actually have a reason not to ignore them?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Crowley cautioned not to assign objective reality to these things, and I'm with him on this

 

[Pyrokar]

There is no need to force a connection.
Just because i didn't care before i read the post doesn't mean i won't care after.
Like in life, the biggest advantage is to just show up (on time)
then again that goes with a measure of warning,
certainly it's not good to have just anyone's attention on you.
i my self am drawn further away than what would be locally/cultural/religiously appropriate

in this case, like in many, i default to chaos logic - go towards what you identify with
as in you personally, you might start from your date of birth or zodiac and track
the names that appear in relation. Or simpler still take a long look and see what attracts you
do your homework and you won't have troubles of the ... magickal race/nationality sort.

for all you know being exotic or away from the usual customers might make you more interesting not less.

great question though, keep it up.

Post automatically merged: Mar 6, 2024

forgot to mention, if you continue to hold those doubts
especially as you perform then they will become real.
because if you care, they will care too.
if you approach with a sense of connection, that too will
be understood by the "audience" even if it's not true it
will likely be appreciated.

 

[Mannimarco]

I’m always slightly envious of the folks who can say that they’re related to Vikings and celts (Wicca & paganism) or the “chosen people” (for the western occultism), because then the spirits might actually have a reason not to ignore them?

I have thought this exact same thing in the past, and it didn't end well.
The largest chunk on my DNA is from the "vikings", and a tiny, but just barely measurable fraction from the "chosen people", and I was strongly "attracted" to both types of magick. Seemed like an obvious fit in theory. But in practice both systems/pantheons seem to utterly hate me, and attack me if i try to work with them. I'm still not sure exactly what the problem is, but ignoring is not the worst that can happen.

 

[HoldAll]

I sometimes wonder if we are not just playing games with our minds here that sometimes for an unknown reason produce astonishing results (or so other people tell me). Or if the spirits do objectively exist and simply humour us by granting our wishes now and then. For the meantime, I've decided to suspend disbelief and see where all this takes me. Besides, I want to live in a world where magic works and to be part of a fringe avantgarde movement that explores the boundaries of what is possible, as a sort of provocation to ostensibly rational society. It's an adventure for me, simply put, and I'm sure it is not limited to so-called 'chosen peoples' that enjoy their hyper-exclusive benefits of astral nepotism.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I sometimes wonder if we are not just playing games with our minds here that sometimes for an unknown reason produce astonishing results (or so other people tell me). Or if the spirits do objectively exist and simply humour us by granting our wishes now and then. For the meantime, I've decided to suspend disbelief and see where all this takes me. Besides, I want to live in a world where magic works and to be part of a fringe avantgarde movement that explores the boundaries of what is possible, as a sort of provocation to ostensibly rational society. It's an adventure for me, simply put, and I'm sure it is not limited to so-called 'chosen peoples' that enjoy their hyper-exclusive benefits of astral nepotism.

Like I always say, magic requires a belief system, but it doesn't matter what that belief system is. For some people, their belief system includes being "the chosen ones"

 

[Rora]

If I’d really wanted to meet some spirits that’ll definitely (in theory) care about me I’d have gone to my families ancestral graveyard (yes, it’s still there) and burnt some incense. But for some reason, I don’t think my ancestors would appreciate woke, non-binary, environmentalist me. Plus, said graveyard is several provinces away.

 

[Wintruz]

If I’d really wanted to meet some spirits that’ll definitely (in theory) care about me I’d have gone to my families ancestral graveyard (yes, it’s still there) and burnt some incense. But for some reason, I don’t think my ancestors would appreciate woke, non-binary, environmentalist me. Plus, said graveyard is several provinces away.

Your ancestors will not have continued as havers of political opinions; those things are transitory (I say that as a person of strong political beliefs). If they have continued, it will be in their essential nature, their tamashii. That is beyond all transitory things. They will not have a single negative feeling about you and will probably watch every breath you take with wonder and adoration. If nothing else, it is good to understand that you are the culmination of a thousand different stories, stretching back far into the past.

I wrote a lengthy piece on here about the "chosen people" current as you might call it. There is no unique power in Cabala and most who are deep into it are more confused than those who align with their own ancestral traditions.

 

[Taudefindi]

I’m always slightly envious of the folks who can say that they’re related to Vikings and celts (Wicca & paganism) or the “chosen people” (for the western occultism)

I wouldn't put much stock in this, in the end what matters are what you do and say, not so much what you are.
Besides I never was into the bandwagon of the "chosen ones" in fiction, more so in real life, I think such talks are only to stoke one's own ego.
Most people want to feel special, "different from the rest", they don't want to admit that everyone is the same at the end of the day.

I want to live in a world where magic works and to be part of a fringe avantgarde movement that explores the boundaries of what is possible, as a sort of provocation to ostensibly rational society.

Suddenly I thought of Dadaism.
But I get what you mean.

I don’t think my ancestors would appreciate woke, non-binary, environmentalist me

I'm sure most ancestors only care if their descendents are evil people or not, because evil people bring dishonor.
They're already dead so it isn't like they can or even should judge a person's lifestyle if they're not being evil.

 

[Pyrokar]

They got poor op being envious of Wiccans lmao.

the chosen people is the dumbest idea we as a race ever came up with.
God made all but only specifically likes us. not the guys 18 miles to the left, not the guys over the river to right
there's an imaginary line, and in that line all is God-beloved and verified. everything out of the line is the Devil's work

cmon.

Post automatically merged: Mar 6, 2024

by being human you are a chosen one.
you are made in God's image. end of story.

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[pixel_fortune]

Here’s a weird question: when I read Western magical texts or plan to do rituals, I always wonder if the entities mentioned/evoked actually give a flying f**k about me, a person some gazillion miles away from their main sphere of influence, and who is not related to their “chosen” in any way, shape or form. Yeah, I’ve been told that archetypes carry across cultures, but how far, really? And what about those who don’t have counterparts?

Post automatically merged: Mar 6, 2024

I’m always slightly envious of the folks who can say that they’re related to Vikings and celts (Wicca & paganism) or the “chosen people” (for the western occultism), because then the spirits might actually have a reason not to ignore them?

Don't you just like people sometimes? You meet someone and think, "they're cool, we should be friends"

It's extremely normal to have friends from a different nation, a different industry ("sphere of influence"), or with different hobbies.

So I have no reason to think spirits would only like people from their nation and industry

 

[Xenophon]

Don't you just like people sometimes? You meet someone and think, "they're cool, we should be friends"

It's extremely normal to have friends from a different nation, a different industry ("sphere of influence"), or with different hobbies.

So I have no reason to think spirits would only like people from their nation and industry

If they do, so what? Every people had traditions and spirits. One can read up on those. Most Europeans and those of Euro descent have some admixture of German, Celt, or Slav. The traditions of all those are fairly well known. This says nothing of southern Europeans of (partially) Greek, or Roman descent. Their ancient ways are far better attested. Folks from outside Europe can dig into their roots. I come from Montana. There's a strong revivalist trend among the several Native American tribes there.

 

[pixel_fortune]

If they do, so what?

OP's question was"I always wonder if the entities mentioned/evoked actually give a flying f**k about me, a person some gazillion miles away from their main sphere of influence, and who is not related to their “chosen” in any way, shape or form."

My answer was "haven't you, yourself, had this experience of being interested in a person outside of your own culture and sphere of influence?"

So there's no mystery here, nothing that requires an explanation

That's the "so what" - it's a direct response to OP's query. It's not trying to make any broader point.

 

[Xenophon]

OP's question was"I always wonder if the entities mentioned/evoked actually give a flying f**k about me, a person some gazillion miles away from their main sphere of influence, and who is not related to their “chosen” in any way, shape or form."

My answer was "haven't you, yourself, had this experience of being interested in a person outside of your own culture and sphere of influence?"

So there's no mystery here, nothing that requires an explanation

That's the "so what" - it's a direct response to OP's query. It's not trying to make any broader point.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying one need not feel orphaned just because the traditions closest his native place are (presently) obscure. Spiritual traditions are expressions of a people, not shopping options.

I mean, I am hardly woke. But I tend to side with blacks, Native Americans, et.al. who b**** about "cultural appropriation" by civilization's lost children. One suspects the former's gods might feel the same way. (That'd be a good premise for a Neil Gaithman novel, no?)

I recall an anecdote from Plutarch here that seems to have bearing. An Athenian (A) was schmoozing a Spartan (B) with how cool he thought the latter's country and people were. A: "Why I love Sparta so much that back home everyone calls me 'Friend of Sparta"! ...long pause...B: "Better you were called friend to your own people."

 

[pixel_fortune]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying one need not feel orphaned just because the traditions closest his native place are (presently) obscure. Spiritual traditions are expressions of a people, not shopping options.

Gotcha, yeah