[Help] Workings With Saturnian

[Xenophon]

I have enjoyed some modest success working with planetary squares. But I have been warned off attempting any workings with Saturn. The source claims that, even with efforts to properly direct Saturn's influence, mishaps are highly likely. Does anyone have any experience with this, either confirmatory or not?

One doubt I have is with the source itself. The group (whom I have only dealt with online) strikes me as an O9A-inspired nexion that decided to become permanent. That is, the leadership seemed to have grown comfortable and, if I may, slightly saturnine. A group that, deeply discontent with post-modernity, counsels "Our gods are at work in this world and we have already won." Whether this affects their workings with Saturn's forces, I cannot say. Still I wonder.

In any event, any input by folks who have worked with the squares and Saturn is welcome.

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

I meant to entitle this "Working With Saturnian Squares," but a whole word fell into the li'l gynningap between brain synapses and entered the Void. If I get any more Alzhammered, I'll wind up POTUS, I will.

 

[that]

I do have no experience with O9A ,but Saturn is Saturn..What is the reward-risk ratio? to my (little) experience everything has a form of"be warned Oh you who .." .If it something i think is benifficial i would take the risk.I would also cover my bases by working with the things that could go wrong and then attempt the Saturn thing.

 

[stalkinghyena]

The source claims that, even with efforts to properly direct Saturn's influence, mishaps are highly likely.

Generally when I read such warnings, I consider it a poison pill. Whether it is based on a group consensus experience or not, someone is trying to put an idea in someone else's head to propitiate a perspective, for whatever reason. Such warnings also tend to be vague and not backed up by any meaningful anecdotes - which could be questioned anyway. Still, they can add spice to one's efforts through subtle expectation.

One doubt I have is with the source itself.

Always wise, IMO. As Kraig pointed out, "There are no experts in occultism". Instead, what we really have are "authorities".
I think the best one can do is match one's inner impressions up with the data and try to maintain a degree of receptivity without projecting potential consequences.

A group that, deeply discontent with post-modernity, counsels "Our gods are at work in this world and we have already won."

From the perspective of Saturn working through Capricorn, based on what I know, the old Goat would neigh skeptically, " 'Kay bro. How's that work exactly? I mean, are you sure? Please don't tell me your a fucking Saggy!"

input

My most recent work was just a contemplation trying to apply an approach I had learned from Abulafia. I analyzed the sigils and was left with a prolonged and not unpleasant psychic state of "dark and determined clarity" that seemed coupled with a sort of mellow indifference. I won't describe Zazel's appearance other than the spirit's form agreed with visions I had of Saturnian angels, though not identical, this being of a different order. The Intelligence Agiel gave me a sudden stark vision of a desolate ocean - and I at once concluded this was contingent on Saturn's current position in Pisces. As the state of "clarity" faded, I was left with some mild trepidation and a headache.

 

[Xenophon]

@stalkinghyena: thanks much. Your answer has the specificity the "warnings" lacked.

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

I do have no experience with O9A ,but Saturn is Saturn..What is the reward-risk ratio? to my (little) experience everything has a form of"be warned Oh you who .." .If it something i think is benifficial i would take the risk.I would also cover my bases by working with the things that could go wrong and then attempt the Saturn thing.

Yes---the fact that five Russian roulette players tell me the game is safe should not conduce to overconfidence.

 

[that]

@stalkinghyena: thanks much. Your answer has the specificity the "warnings" lacked.

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

Yes---the fact that five Russian roulette players tell me the game is safe should not conduce to overconfidence.

Touché..although without the five players we would not know that there is a game.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I have enjoyed some modest success working with planetary squares. But I have been warned off attempting any workings with Saturn. The source claims that, even with efforts to properly direct Saturn's influence, mishaps are highly likely. Does anyone have any experience with this, either confirmatory or not?

One doubt I have is with the source itself. The group (whom I have only dealt with online) strikes me as an O9A-inspired nexion that decided to become permanent. That is, the leadership seemed to have grown comfortable and, if I may, slightly saturnine. A group that, deeply discontent with post-modernity, counsels "Our gods are at work in this world and we have already won." Whether this affects their workings with Saturn's forces, I cannot say. Still I wonder.

In any event, any input by folks who have worked with the squares and Saturn is welcome.

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

I meant to entitle this "Working With Saturnian Squares," but a whole word fell into the li'l gynningap between brain synapses and entered the Void. If I get any more Alzhammered, I'll wind up POTUS, I will.

I had a natal chart "analysis for magicians" done by Austin Coppock (wrote 36 Faces, does the astrology for Sphere + Sundry)

He warned me, personally, away from that kind of work with Saturn, because Saturn is afflicted in my chat.

That suggests to me that if your Saturn is not afflicted, then he would say it is fine for you

(If you're curious, he recommended planetary charity as the safest approach for working with afflicted planets)

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[that]

I had a natal chart "analysis for magicians" done by Austin Coppock (wrote 36 Faces, does the astrology for Sphere + Sundry)

He warned me, personally, away from that kind of work with Saturn, because Saturn is afflicted in my chat.

That suggests to me that if your Saturn is not afflicted, then he would say it is fine for you

(If you're curious, he recommended planetary charity as the safest approach for working with afflicted planets)

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Also Vedic Astrology has a lot of remedies for afflicted planets, with Planetary Yantras being the "laziest" aproach to fix astrological inbalances.

 

[Xenophon]

Touché..although without the five players we would not know that there is a game.

Sort of like the blind men and the cobra. Blind men 1-5: "It seemeth to me a cobra is much like a rubber hose." Number 6: "Aaaarghhh!"

 

[that]

Sort of like the blind men and the cobra. Blind men 1-5: "It seemeth to me a cobra is much like a rubber hose." Number 6: "Aaaarghhh!"

Every 25 seconds someone dies on road accident .Let us not use the road again!

 

[stalkinghyena]

Your answer has the specificity the "warnings" lacked.

One I thought of recently is that if one were to inscribe the square and sigils on lead, it's probably good idea to wear PPE such as gloves during the process.

@pixel_fortune I do agree with Coppock's advice, and I think I heard him discuss this in Chris Brennan's podcasts, where most of my exposure to his thought is from.
I think, whether afflicted or not, the placement of Saturn at the time of working, as well as this relation to the birth chart is something worth taking note of, at the very least.

As to "charity", I think ritual placation makes sense, especially when and if tensions arise. With my own Saturn I go the mode of analysis - but the irony is that I realized this is Saturn working at solving issues of Saturn, the Zodiacal placement being a mode of expression at best, interference at worse (another reflection of Saturn).

If I were to have, say, Saturn in Aries in a "bad" house (6, 8, 12) with Mars and the South Node and lots of squares and oppositions, I would handle the Kamea like nitroglycerin, if I could find the patience to handle them at all. There's probably another irony there, but I don't want to search that out here.

In the case of the Kameas, according to Griffin (modern GD) these should be treated as demonic, though are separate category from the Qlipoth. How he arrived at that conclusion seems idiosyncratic in relation to other areas I have studied. I would consider them as just celestial powers myself, but the real object is typically talismanic.

 

[Xenophon]

One I thought of recently is that if one were to inscribe the square and sigils on lead, it's probably good idea to wear PPE such as gloves during the process.

@pixel_fortune I do agree with Coppock's advice, and I think I heard him discuss this in Chris Brennan's podcasts, where most of my exposure to his thought is from.
I think, whether afflicted or not, the placement of Saturn at the time of working, as well as this relation to the birth chart is something worth taking note of, at the very least.

As to "charity", I think ritual placation makes sense, especially when and if tensions arise. With my own Saturn I go the mode of analysis - but the irony is that I realized this is Saturn working at solving issues of Saturn, the Zodiacal placement being a mode of expression at best, interference at worse (another reflection of Saturn).

If I were to have, say, Saturn in Aries in a "bad" house (6, 8, 12) with Mars and the South Node and lots of squares and oppositions, I would handle the Kamea like nitroglycerin, if I could find the patience to handle them at all. There's probably another irony there, but I don't want to search that out here.

In the case of the Kameas, according to Griffin (modern GD) these should be treated as demonic, though are separate category from the Qlipoth. How he arrived at that conclusion seems idiosyncratic in relation to other areas I have studied. I would consider them as just celestial powers myself, but the real object is typically talismanic.

A couple hours handling lead won't be dangerous. ("When I wuz young, I played with lead all the time an' lookit me now?")

Your post, however, gives me a lot more to work with. So, gracias.

 

[ElectricEgregore]

Agiel gave me a sudden stark vision of a desolate ocean

That is also matching some psalms connected to Saturn's second seal, that has the SATOR square on it in Hebrew as well:
Psalm 72:8 "He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth"

 

[stalkinghyena]

That is also matching some psalms connected to Saturn's second seal, that has the SATOR square on it in Hebrew as well:
Psalm 72:8 "He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth"

Good connect. Reflecting on the time I wrote that of the Agiel vision, Saturn was in applying conjunction with Mars in Pisces. When perfect conjunction came some time later, I had a series of transcendental vision-states where "dominion from sea to sea" could be seen as a nice poetic gift bow.
I could describe this as relating to "Shashuah" (delights of the king) but I had not learned that term yet.

 

[ElectricEgregore]

Good connect. Reflecting on the time I wrote that of the Agiel vision, Saturn was in applying conjunction with Mars in Pisces. When perfect conjunction came some time later, I had a series of transcendental vision-states where "dominion from sea to sea" could be seen as a nice poetic gift bow.
I could describe this as relating to "Shashuah" (delights of the king) but I had not learned that term yet.

The psalm I shared is as far as I know interpreted as connected to the Messiah, in Judaism as well as in Christianity.

I was just looking into Agiel as I wanted to connect with him, for me it was about the positive side of saturnian energies, discipline and protection from outside / inside distractions. What was your source material to work with this Angel if I may ask?

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

That is also matching some psalms connected to Saturn's second seal, that has the SATOR square on it in Hebrew as well:
Psalm 72:8 "He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth"

Interestingly enough the Picatrix also assigns this type of dominion over everything to the magus who can win Saturns favor.

 

[ElectricEgregore]

Interestingly enough the Picatrix also assigns this type of dominion over everything to the magus who can win Saturns favor.

My pretty tired mind has a few things to add, I guess it may has to do with Saturn governing over everything that is touched by time or held/compressed into order. All growth coming from abstinence and setting own rules for oneself, so basically winning the favor of Saturn is to do the things that bring lasting success, to sacrifice, to abstain, to ignore distractions and opinions, to dedicate to a routine that grows slowly but exponentially.

Also very interesting for me was the second part of Frater Achers Holy Daimon book, where he shared his challenge in the form of a Saturn Retreat ritual, where after he was able to have communion with his Holy Guardian Angel. Great book. It seems to me the power of Saturn can be used to accomplish things, or to get a process started at least, that compounds into or leads directly into some form of excellence.

Great youtube channel by the way, need to look into your work again, seriously one of the best occult themed channels I have seen Keep it up!

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

My pretty tired mind has a few things to add, I guess it may has to do with Saturn governing over everything that is touched by time or held/compressed into order. All growth coming from abstinence and setting own rules for oneself, so basically winning the favor of Saturn is to do the things that bring lasting success, to sacrifice, to abstain, to ignore distractions and opinions, to dedicate to a routine that grows slowly but exponentially.

Also very interesting for me was the second part of Frater Achers Holy Daimon book, where he shared his challenge in the form of a Saturn Retreat ritual, where after he was able to have communion with his Holy Guardian Angel. Great book. It seems to me the power of Saturn can be used to accomplish things, or to get a process started at least, that compounds into or leads directly into some form of excellence.

Great youtube channel by the way, need to look into your work again, seriously one of the best occult themed channels I have seen Keep it up!

Thank you friend. And yes I agree with your observation. I definitely perceive astral and planetary magic as the development of the powers of time, and Saturn being the last stop in the ascent would be full assumption of this ability. Truly a remarkable planet, Hail the Lord of Dark and Cold.

 

[stalkinghyena]

What was your source material to work with this Angel if I may ask?

Just the Kamea sigil, but with consideration of Zazel and the main sigil. I was merely skrying, trying to get a sense of the distinction between the modes and functions of Spirit and Intelligence. I do planetary rites as part of my daily regimen, so I consider it part of my general attunement.

 

[ElectricEgregore]

Just the Kamea sigil, but with consideration of Zazel and the main sigil. I was merely skrying, trying to get a sense of the distinction between the modes and functions of Spirit and Intelligence. I do planetary rites as part of my daily regimen, so I consider it part of my general attunement.

Very interesting, your astrological observations went a little over my head in your answer before, so it makes sense now that you shared how intimate you are with this process. I'm also into astrology, but am still not in the state of truly understanding it intuitively or grasping the big picture to interact with it in my mind intuitively. Are there some things that are approachable for others that brought you there, like certain systems or astrological resources that formed your expertise? Or would you say it was more of a patchwork process that took years and is rather not possible to recommend certain resources?