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Your ideal form of government?

Xenophon

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The problem with this idea in modern times is that we cannot really see a leader that "fights well." All i see is a bunch of weak individuals who act tough behind their bodyguards which anyone can do. The biggest thing that would matter to me is integrity, but the problem with that today is being able to recognize true integrity vs fake projected integrity.
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How i see it, if leader floods you with video content showing who he is — most likely that leader is full of shit.
That is why being bombed back to the stone age might be a blessing. "Sustainable development" is taking there in slow motion and at the price of irreversable environmental degradation.
 

frater_pan

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Real democracy is the best (think a perfect Netherlands or Sweden).

Short of that Sliders had an episode, season 2 episode 9, Obsession, where the actual power was held by a benevolent although not saintly master psychic who was apparently correct much more than half the time.
 

Johny111

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For me, the ideal form of government is non-government. I advocate for the radical depopulation of human beings on the planet and the establishment of an enlightened meritocracy of a small number of spiritually advanced individuals. I know, it sounds a bit Illuminati, but since we're talking about ideal government, I can share what I think.
 

Kepler

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As far as what's available on this planet, secular democracy Social Liberalism appears to offer the most freedom, health, safety and advancement for occult investigation and magical arts for the most people.

The Book of Codes(Liber 718) outwardly has a government system based on ranked magical advancement. Which, idealistically, could be cool, but maybe works better as hidden kings moving the spirits at those levels.
 

Accipeveldare

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if you ran things what government would you set up?

As society has evolved we threw off the power of kings and rulers (so we say). yet in 2022 the governments we elect decide who we vote for, waste our taxes, etc...and we demonize dictatorships when our history of interfering in other countries is no better, I think we just paint America as the greatest place to live, I love America yet we shouldn’t sugar coat history. It reminds me of history in schools where we make our founding fathers out to be Saints when Lincoln had racist views and Washington could be a grade A asshole.

imo if I ran things I would be an absolute dictator, having said that, people should have the right to over throw their government when it becomes tyrannical.

the reason for my choice is that people don’t seem to have the capacity to use their ability to vote in a responsible way.
Fuck all the logistics. How about a government without corruption or greed?
 

UnlikelySith

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According to ancient Greek philosophers democracy is the worst form of government, i.e. "idiots elect idiots to represent them".

The ideal was to have a form of government where philosophers would rule and decide what´s best for the nation.

To me, a close one would be having someone like Elon Musk; enough brains, efficiency and care for progress and humanity (that´s right).
 

Sabbatius

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According to ancient Greek philosophers democracy is the worst form of government, i.e. "idiots elect idiots to represent them".

The ideal was to have a form of government where philosophers would rule and decide what´s best for the nation.

To me, a close one would be having someone like Elon Musk; enough brains, efficiency and care for progress and humanity (that´s right).
The Greeks were the ones who instituted Democracy. Democracy is basically mob rule.
The system of Representative Government is Rome. Representative Government easily becomes corrupt.

Aristotle taught the concept of the Philosopher-King, an educated wise ruler. However, this can easily become a dictatorship, or even a warlord society.

The best option is to avoid politics altogether. I spent too much time worrying about things I had zero control over.
 

Kepler

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According to ancient Greek philosophers democracy is the worst form of government, i.e. "idiots elect idiots to represent them".

The ideal was to have a form of government where philosophers would rule and decide what´s best for the nation.

To me, a close one would be having someone like Elon Musk; enough brains, efficiency and care for progress and humanity (that´s right).
Would these be the same philosophers who think they should be in charge? It's good to question motivations in cases like those. What seems like a good pitch may only be a con.

Regardless, both what you're suggesting and democracy require a high level of education to function properly. One in its leadership, the other in both leadership and citizens. While it takes investment for mass public secular education in Liberal Arts, democracy at least provides an option to get rid of the self-interested and install the most capable options into public service positions. Ideally where every citizen of a democratic secular nation is their own best philosopher king(high degree of Liberal Arts education) they would be able to tell which philosopher king among them would be best to represent them. This also requires a level of self awareness in everyone, meaning those without a strong Liberal Arts education understand their own ignorance, and act accordingly and don't act out from frustration when they don't understand and don't try to hold back civilization.

A lot can be revealed about a nation by looking at leadership in a metaphysical sense as representing the state of the national mind.

A statement like yours, representing a current American citizen, that abdicates responsibility to a foreign born (philosopher)king isn't the familiar representative liberty of the revolution, but a return to neofeudalism with servile devotional reverence of leadership.
 

UnlikelySith

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Would these be the same philosophers who think they should be in charge? It's good to question motivations in cases like those. What seems like a good pitch may only be a con.

Regardless, both what you're suggesting and democracy require a high level of education to function properly. One in its leadership, the other in both leadership and citizens. While it takes investment for mass public secular education in Liberal Arts, democracy at least provides an option to get rid of the self-interested and install the most capable options into public service positions. Ideally where every citizen of a democratic secular nation is their own best philosopher king(high degree of Liberal Arts education) they would be able to tell which philosopher king among them would be best to represent them. This also requires a level of self awareness in everyone, meaning those without a strong Liberal Arts education understand their own ignorance, and act accordingly and don't act out from frustration when they don't understand and don't try to hold back civilization.

A lot can be revealed about a nation by looking at leadership in a metaphysical sense as representing the state of the national mind.

A statement like yours, representing a current American citizen, that abdicates responsibility to a foreign born (philosopher)king isn't the familiar representative liberty of the revolution, but a return to neofeudalism with servile devotional reverence of leadership.
I just mentioned it for the sake of argument. I don't personally believe a philosopher rule would be any better than any other form of government.
 

Kepler

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I just mentioned it for the sake of argument. I don't personally believe a philosopher rule would be any better than any other form of government.
With personal philosophy being the source of ethics, and in the case of government the moral compass of a civilization, it's good that a leader and citizens have the tools to articulate and determine acts that accord with successful secular virtue ethics for steady bearing. Not that it's the only quality, or even only type of ethics to account for, but it's an upstream one.
 

ArchonLynx

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Sad people need to be ruled & feel lower than those in power... We need no governments a lawless world is a natural world we live in a unnatural created reality that we think is normal.

Nothing about human life now a days is normal we are way out of whack & sadly can't be fixed untill the next reset & the current world is nearly completely destroyed & 80% of population died off..

We are trapped in this fake reality with all it's false knowledge & illusions we are the apocalypse always have been.
 

IndieAgora

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Curious, isn’t it, how the fantasy of the benevolent dictator keeps resurfacing—like a half-remembered dream of order in a world that feels increasingly chaotic. But maybe what we’re mourning isn’t political dysfunction. Maybe it’s the loss of a shared narrative. When people call for a strongman, what they’re often really asking for is coherence. Simplicity. A story in which someone—anyone—knows what the hell is going on.


Once, we believed the world was governed by rational systems—by leaders and institutions capable of shaping the future. But as the chaos of modernity deepened, another story emerged: that a hidden elite controls everything. It’s comforting in its own way. It implies that, somewhere, there’s still a plan.


The desire to concentrate power always dresses itself up as pragmatism—as the only way to “get things done.” But power doesn’t attract wisdom. It attracts interest. And interest, left unchecked, consumes truth.


In the 17th century, as England tore itself apart in civil war, a man named Thomas Hobbes watched cities fall to factions, neighbours slaughter each other in the name of God, and society unravel. From this, he imagined something monstrous but necessary: Leviathan—a human-made machine of absolute authority, built from fear, designed to keep the peace.


Centuries later, in the quiet hum of an American office, philosopher Larry May revisited Hobbes. He believed the Leviathan could be redeemed. That sovereignty could be tempered—not just by law, but by ethics. That the state could protect without devouring. That we could reject torture. That we could build a moral engine of governance.


But while May was sketching a kinder Leviathan, the world was shifting.


The Cold War ended. History, we were told, had reached its conclusion. The West had won. A new global consensus emerged: markets, globalization, human rights. It was sleek, data-driven, and full of optimism.


But it was also an illusion.


Beneath the polished rhetoric, wages stagnated. Communities were hollowed out. From the American Rust Belt to the north of England, factories closed, pubs boarded up, lives frayed. Yet politicians insisted everything was fine. That this was progress.


Then came John Gray.


Once a liberal philosopher, by the 2000s he had become its eulogist. Gray argued that Hobbes hadn’t given us a blueprint for moral government, but a warning. History doesn’t progress—it repeats, forgets, mutates. Liberalism hadn’t failed because it was wrong. It had failed because it was naive. People don’t crave perfect rights. They crave order. Security. A future.


And when they’re denied that, they revolt.


Populism, Gray said, wasn’t a glitch. It was Hobbes resurrected. Brexit. Trump. The Gilets Jaunes. These weren’t outliers—they were the return of fear. Fear of being ignored. Of being replaced. Of a machine that no longer protected them, but served someone else.


Meanwhile, the political class clung to nostalgia. They promised to “restore the centre”—but the centre had already collapsed. The Leviathan had become incoherent. It no longer safeguarded. It performed. Law replaced politics. Courts became arenas of ideology. Even speech was no longer regulated by the state, but by society—policed through shame, cancellation, and silence.


Larry May still believed in redemption—that the machine could be made good. But Gray saw a trap: that in trying to eliminate tragedy from politics, liberalism had produced absurdity.


And now, as endless wars grind on, as economies wobble, as algorithms whisper and machines learn, the people watch.


Waiting.
 

Flavius

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I would not set anything up but I do think monarchy is the best form of government. Kings and nobles who are not shells of such classes derive their legitimacy from Above. There should be sacred laws, festivals, public rituals held by the king etc.

The best form of government does not matter if the people running it are of low quality as modern day office holders are who should not be among the elite being that they are plebeians, merchants, and slaves rather than nobles. This is the manifestation of the circulation of the elites which is like the cyclical process of time that does not progress (at least spiritually) but regresses. Our leaders have the metallic quality of iron like this iron age we are in.

There are various subversive forces in the modern world that would make any of the forms of government inadequate including those of the democratic type adored by the masses of egalitarians. One such thing is the cosmopolitanism that has overshadowed the world. As bad as democracy is it is even worse with a bunch of alien peoples moving it together who think they are all one. This egalitarian sickness goes hand in hand with the atomization of the world where people are all interchangeable parts who can be whatever they want and to whom the dictum of the Pythian oracle would thus be seen as an affront.
 

IndieAgora

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The word “democracy” is everywhere. It echoes through the chambers of power, spills from the mouths of politicians, and adorns the banners of revolutions. We are told that democracy is the highest good, the foundation of freedom, and the inevitable destiny of all societies. But what if it isn’t? What if the word itself has become an incantation, a hollow mantra that conceals something else—something darker?

Alain de Benoist is not interested in the comforting fables of liberal democracy. In The Problem of Democracy, he tears away the façade, exposing the contradictions and illusions that underpin the modern world. His thesis is simple: what we call democracy today is not democracy at all, but a system of control masked as popular rule. The great paradox is that democracy, which claims to empower the people, has instead made them passive, atomized, and impotent.

This was not always the case. In ancient Athens, democracy was direct. The citizens—those who belonged to the polis, by blood and by tradition—gathered to debate and decide on the fate of their city. There were no representatives, no distant bureaucrats. To be an Athenian was to participate; to abstain from politics was to be an idiot in the classical sense—a private person, disconnected from the life of the community. But this democracy was not universal. It was bound by identity, by shared heritage, by a sense of belonging. And it was fragile. The Athenians, guided by the demagogue Cleon, made a fatal mistake. They listened to those who flattered them, who told them they could rule the world, who said that democracy was for everyone. And so, driven by hubris, they waged war on Sparta, and in the end, their empire crumbled into dust.

But history is not a straight line. Democracy did not “evolve” into something better, more advanced. It changed, twisted, became something else. The Renaissance thinkers did not dream of democracy—they admired monarchy, the rule of the wise. Even the great Enlightenment philosophers, who spoke of reason and rights, were cautious. Montesquieu, one of the fathers of modern political thought, believed the people should be able to watch the government, but never govern themselves. The American and French Revolutions, which we are told birthed modern democracy, were in truth revolutions of elites. The men who designed the American system built it to prevent direct democracy, fearing the rule of the mob.

The French revolutionaries, in their fanatic pursuit of equality, replaced one form of tyranny with another—the guillotine, the scaffold, the reign of terror.

And yet, despite all this, democracy became the sacred word of the modern age. By the 19th century, the illusion had set in. The Industrial Revolution shattered old societies, tearing people from their villages, their traditions, their gods. In their place, the new rulers offered the myth of progress. Democracy became not a practice, but an idea, an abstract ideal floating above history. Governments no longer needed legitimacy from lineage or divine right. Now, they claimed legitimacy from “the people”—even when the people had no real power at all.

This is the paradox de Benoist explores. Modern democracy tells us that we are sovereign, that we decide our fate through the ballot box. But this is an illusion. Elections do not give power to the people—they merely legitimize those who already rule. The act of voting is not participation, but a ritual, a performance that allows the system to continue unquestioned. The rulers change, but the structure remains. And within this structure, real decisions are made not by voters, but by unelected bureaucrats, corporate lobbyists, and international institutions.

At the heart of this deception is the myth of representation. We are told that since modern societies are too large for direct democracy, we must have representatives to speak for us. But representation is a trick—it is the delegation of power, which is another way of saying the loss of power. Once the people surrender their sovereignty to politicians, they are no longer rulers, but subjects. And so, democracy, instead of being the government of the people, becomes the government in the name of the people.

The evidence is all around us. Voter turnout declines year after year. Trust in politicians collapses. No matter who wins elections, policies remain largely the same. The economy is controlled by multinational corporations, not by elected officials. Wars are waged, not by public mandate, but by private interests. The media, which claims to hold power accountable, is itself an arm of the system, shaping public opinion rather than reflecting it. And yet, despite all this, democracy remains untouchable. To question it is to be labeled a reactionary, an extremist, an enemy of freedom.

But freedom is another word that has lost its meaning. To the Greeks, liberty was not about the absence of restraint, but the ability to participate in the life of the community. A man was free because he was a citizen, because he belonged to something greater than himself. Today, freedom means something else—it means isolation, the right to be alone, to consume, to obey without coercion. Modern democracy does not unite people; it dissolves them into individuals, each with his own interests, his own desires, his own truth. And so, the people, fragmented and divided, are easily controlled.

This is why democracy, as it exists today, has become a machine, an impersonal system that operates regardless of who is in charge. It is no longer a political ideal, but a technique of governance, a way of managing populations through illusion. It does not require citizens, only voters. It does not require participation, only consent. And so, the spectacle continues. The debates, the campaigns, the scandals—none of it matters. The system endures, because it has made itself the only alternative.

But what if there is another way? De Benoist does not reject democracy entirely. He calls for something different, something older and deeper—an organic democracy. A democracy not of isolated individuals, but of communities, rooted in culture, tradition, and shared identity. A democracy where participation is real, where decisions are made at the local level, where power is decentralized and accountable. In this vision, democracy is not a universal ideology to be imposed on all, but a practice, a way of life that must emerge naturally from a people and their history.

This is a dangerous idea. It challenges the foundations of modern politics. It suggests that the problems of democracy cannot be solved by more democracy, by greater inclusivity, by better institutions. It suggests that the very structure of the modern world—the global economy, the bureaucratic state, the mass media—must be dismantled. It suggests that democracy, in its current form, is not the final stage of history, but a temporary illusion, a fragile construct that, like Athens, like Rome, like all empires before it, will one day collapse.

And perhaps that day is coming sooner than we think. The signs are everywhere—social unrest, political polarization, the growing sense that something is deeply wrong. The center cannot hold. The promises of democracy ring hollow. The people, who for so long have been told they rule, are beginning to realize they do not. And when that realization spreads, when the illusion finally shatters, what will remain?

History moves in cycles. Democracies rise, and democracies fall. What comes next is uncertain.

But if de Benoist is right, then the real question is not how to save democracy, but how to go beyond it—how to build something new from its ruins.
 
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