• Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!

Zen Sickness

commonvandal

Visitor
Joined
Sep 9, 2026
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
I’ve just gotten back from a weekend Zazenkai at a zen center in my area. I stayed and did 7 hours of zazen or zen meditation along with a number of other meditation practices. I’ve come back feeling very not myself. Has anyone spent too much time mediating and what did it do to them?
Part of my experience was connected to Makyo or delusions during meditation yhat I’ve been trying to remember and work through. Love to hear other people’s experiences or anything you might have learned in research.
 

Ignotus

Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2026
Messages
67
Reaction score
235
Sounds like you overdid it a bit. I’d take a few days off, sleep, eat properly and do normal everyday things. I also wouldn’t try to remember and work through the makyo, since you’re supposed to let them pass rather than chase them. It’s also a bit weird that the center just sent you home like that without checking in or giving you any advice
 

commonvandal

Visitor
Joined
Sep 9, 2026
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Sounds like you overdid it a bit. I’d take a few days off, sleep, eat properly and do normal everyday things. I also wouldn’t try to remember and work through the makyo, since you’re supposed to let them pass rather than chase them. It’s also a bit weird that the center just sent you home like that without checking in or giving you any advice
I think you’re right not to get so caught up in the remembering. I’ve definitely been trying to get back into ‘normal’ life this week. I will say I probably needed to be a bit more vocal about my experience before leaving. Since I left I contacted the center and got a lot of mixed feedback. I had never considered that meditation could have this kind of impact really. It does feel like when I’ve been speaking to more experienced practitioners many people have stories like this and after practicing regularly for two years I wish it was more common to talk about the bad sits or the idk overwhelming sits. Anyways thank you for the support!
 

Omee

Zealot
Benefactor
Vendor
Joined
Feb 1, 2023
Messages
163
Reaction score
749
Awards
11
I’ve just gotten back from a weekend Zazenkai at a zen center in my area. I stayed and did 7 hours of zazen or zen meditation along with a number of other meditation practices. I’ve come back feeling very not myself. Has anyone spent too much time mediating and what did it do to them?

This might be helpful in dealing with your condition, the following is the method Hakuin used to treat Zen Sickness:

The Soft-Butter Method
“You [Hakuin] mentioned a method in which butter is used,” I said. “May I ask you about that?”
Master Hakuyu replied, “When a student engaged in meditation finds that he is exhausted in body and mind because the four constituent elements of his body are in a state of disharmony, he should gird up his spirit and perform the following visualisation:


“Imagine that a lump of soft butter, pure in colour and fragrance and the size and shape of a duck egg, is suddenly placed on the top of your head. As it begins to slowly melt, it imparts an exquisite sensation, moistening and saturating your head within and without. It continues to ooze down, moistening your shoulders, elbows, and chest; permeating lungs, diaphragm, liver, stomach, and bowels; moving down the spine through the hips, pelvis, and buttocks.


“At that point, all the congestions that have accumulated within the five organs and six viscera, all the aches and pains in the abdomen and other affected parts, will follow the heart as it sinks downward into the lower body. As it does, you will distinctly hear a sound like that of water trickling from a higher to a lower place. It will move lower down through the lower body, suffusing the legs with beneficial warmth, until it reaches the soles of the feet, where it stops.


“The student should then repeat the contemplation. As his vital energy flows downward, it gradually fills the lower region of the body, suffusing it with penetrating warmth, making him feel as if he were sitting up to his navel in a hot bath filled with a decoction of rare and fragrant medicinal herbs that have been gathered and infused by a skilled physician.


“Inasmuch as all things are created by the mind, when you engage in this contemplation, the nose will actually smell the marvellous scent of pure, soft butter; your body will feel the exquisite sensation of its melting touch. Your body and mind will be in perfect peace and harmony. You will feel better and enjoy greater health than you did as a youth of twenty or thirty. At this time, all the undesirable accumulations in your vital organs and viscera will melt away. Stomach and bowels will function perfectly. Before you know it, your skin will glow with health. If you continue to practise the contemplation with diligence, there is no illness that cannot be cured, no virtue that cannot be acquired, no level of sagehood that cannot be reached, no religious practice that cannot be mastered. Whether such results appear swiftly or slowly depends only upon how scrupulously you apply yourself.


“I was a sickly youth, in much worse shape than you are now. I experienced ten times the suffering you have endured. The doctors finally gave up on me. I explored hundreds of cures on my own, but none of them brought me any relief. I turned to the gods for help. Prayed to the deities of both heaven and earth, begging them for their subtle, imperceptible assistance. I was marvellously blessed. They extended me their support and protection. I came upon this wonderful method of soft-butter contemplation. My joy knew no bounds. I immediately set about practising it with total and single-minded determination. Before even a month was out, my troubles had almost totally vanished. Since that time, I’ve never been the least bit bothered by any complaint, physical or mental.


“I became like an ignoramus, mindless and utterly free of care. I was oblivious to the passage of time. I never knew what day or month it was, even whether it was a leap year or not. I gradually lost interest in the things the world holds dear, soon forgot completely about the hopes and desires and customs of ordinary men and women. In my middle years, I was compelled by circumstance to leave Kyoto and take refuge in the mountains of Wakasa Province. I lived there nearly thirty years, unknown to my fellow men. Looking back on that period of my life, it seems as fleeting and unreal as the dream-life that flashed through Lu-sheng’s slumbering brain.[6]


“Now I live here in this solitary spot in the hills of Shirakawa, far from all human habitation. I have a layer or two of clothing to wrap around my withered old carcass. But even in midwinter, on nights when the cold bites through the thin cotton, I don’t freeze. Even during the months when there are no mountain fruits or nuts for me to gather, and I have no grain to eat, I don’t starve. It is all thanks to this contemplation.
“Young man, you have just learned a secret that you could not use up in a whole lifetime. What more could I teach you?”

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

HoldAll

Librarian
Staff member
Librarian
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
31,451
Awards
19
As I understand Buddhism, delusion is the root of all evil (it's where greed/attraction and hate/aversion stem from, after all) and the number-one delusion is of course the concept of a permanent unchanging Self. Not having a Self is such a counter-intuitive idea that most people will immediately dismiss it as ludicrous, it's not how we experience the world.

One time a very eager meditator claimed here that meditation gave him
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and although my own practice is much more limited, I've experienced something similar at times. There came a point during empty-mind mediation where it was no longer, "I'm hearing street noises" but "There are street noises", where the feeling was that no subject whatsoever was required to listen to these sounds - which should be contrary to all reason but that's how it appeeard to me; now it's more like hollowness. It's how I got my first inklings that there must be something to that no-self doctrine. It wasn't unpleasant as for the hardcore meditator I mentioned but now I understand what he meant by 'depersonalisation'. I can't even imagine how I would feel after seven hours of meditation, I'd probably be like "Who was that person meditating again"? Losing your sense of self is regarded as a sign of Buddhism but can also be a psychiatric condition.

I used to be quite cynical about human agency and free will anyway but the more I'm immersing myself in Theravada Buddhism, the more I realise how optimistic I had been even in my darkest moments. Buddhism can do that to you. Take any decision you have ever made (including the one attending a weekend retreat!), and a good teacher can pick it apart, demonstrating step by step how it had been conditioned by external factors, your upbringing, your likes and dislikes, etc. It's dehumanising, in a way.

"Working through something" doesn't sound like shikantaza to me, more like Theravadin vipassana where you actively scan your body and your mind. According to Gemini: "Theravada Vipassana meditation does not inherently cause clinical depression, but intense practice can trigger a well-documented phase of profound psychological distress, existential dread, or low mood. In traditional Buddhist teachings, this challenging phase is known as the dukkha ñāṇas (knowledges of suffering)." The conventional wisdom is that you should return to samatha (concentration or calming meditation, what I call 'empty mind') whenever you feel stressed out by vipassana but you might need some time away from meditation altogether and re-adapt to everyday life and fending for your (conventional) self.

Buddhist practice is not without dangers. A guy I once knew who used to go to retreats told me about the term 'zen zombies', people who had (ostensibly) eradicated their passions, as the jargon goes, and as a result looked dull and lifeless. Excessive self-observation can be another trap I frequently find myself in: "You're only doing this because of that, you're only thinking that because of this, etc." I've found that entering a state of empty mind is really the best remedy for such ruminations, beats journalling by a mile.
 

unlight

Neophyte
Joined
Aug 11, 2022
Messages
28
Reaction score
41
It’s actually quite common for issues to arise during weekend Zazenkai sessions. Currently, the main reason seems to be that practitioners rarely engage in intense practice in their daily lives and then immediately participate in sitting for long periods; of course, genetic factors also play a role for some people. You’ll notice that some people experience physical issues—such as cramps, stiffness, or unconsciously biting their lips—which can be seen as signs of physical tension. In some cases, it stems from excessive mental arousal. There are likely many more specific types, but there’s no need to overcomplicate things. Buddhism itself has books that classify these issues, though they may not be very practical for modern people. Different Buddhist traditions also handle this differently. Aside from visualization-based methods, in modern times, when someone is overly aroused, you might sometimes see people recommending Viagra or similar medications—you know, to direct blood flow to the lower body. You might also find that, in terms of practice scheduling, it’s actually helpful to draw inspiration from sports training. Consistency is more important than intensity.
Post automatically merged:

Come to think of it, it’s somewhat similar to the rules of fasting: you start by reducing your food intake, then move on to complete abstinence from food, and when you resume eating, you gradually increase your intake again.
 

scholar

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 16, 2026
Messages
5
Reaction score
6
I’ve just gotten back from a weekend Zazenkai at a zen center in my area. I stayed and did 7 hours of zazen or zen meditation along with a number of other meditation practices. I’ve come back feeling very not myself. Has anyone spent too much time mediating and what did it do to them?
Part of my experience was connected to Makyo or delusions during meditation yhat I’ve been trying to remember and work through. Love to hear other people’s experiences or anything you might have learned in research.
Hi there... i wont stay so much longer here, but the time i do, i can provide you a few hints maybe... i am on the zen way since 5.5 years now, with a lot of fighting for normality (in my case, because im highly sensitive and i maybe also respond very well to zen, no idea).

For zen-practise, especially for retreats or also shorter stays, you need to be grounded well, because otherwise someday you will be shaked by the effects of that practise and if that tree has then no deep enough roots, he might get problems (like me too from time to time :/), maybe that what you have/had was just a smaller example. If you normally do your Zazen 1x/day 30-45 minutes or which duration you think is good for you, there wont happen such things fast, but in times with 2 - 3 zazens or more for a certain time, things often "start to get interessting". It didnt happen too much to you, if you ask me (i hope you are fine again), better be prepared for stronger winds too - and dont forget to be thankful, that there is wind at all. Others are waiting and waiting or are turning somersaults, and nothing changes.

How to be prepared and how be grounded better (in german we say "geerdet sein"): Do sports, going to gym i.e. raises your feeling to your body, have enough social contacts, go to work or at least do enough physical things, enough sleep is also not wrong. You will also need to learn from time to time, how to come through difficult phases, you will have to find your own strats for such times. Furthermore, for unstable times i have a few herbal calmatives here on demand too: baldrian, passion flower and ashwaganda. But maybe you dont need them now, its just good to keep in mind... another strat, at least for me.

And the most important: you need one thrusted person who is a longtherm practitioner (>20 years), so that you can go to him/her with such problems and questions, anytime it is important.

🙏
Post automatically merged:

(And again, the time for editing my post expired...) I hate to say that - i really dont like sports - but see all those grounding things somehow as a necessary part of your zen practise. On samu-retreats, which i could recommend, they are also working during the day, the same in cloisters, which isnt just because the things need to be done.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 22, 2025
Messages
496
Reaction score
371
Awards
4
This is one of the huge problems with traditional meditation. That's why it should be coupled with energy work.
 

kusuri

Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2025
Messages
93
Reaction score
343
Awards
3
I agree with Holdall's comment. It is in my opinion to dedicate 30min to an hour each morning.
 

Swampdweller900

Acolyte
Joined
Sep 21, 2025
Messages
278
Reaction score
658
Awards
5
Meditation psychosis is absolutely a thing, with or without zen being part of it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It's a largely unmentioned issue among Zen practitioners, though it's becoming more widely accepted. The link @Omee shared is from a master who suffered meditation psychosis centuries ago. I can't find an article I saw in Bicycle magazine once about it, but even there it's been discussed as something that flies under the radar. I believe the concern was dissolution of ego without doing the work beforehand to get you ready for dissolution of ego. It can be jarring. There's no judgement on you. You're not weak or have something wrong with you, this is something that happens to people sometimes.

7 hours is a long time. You basically just ran a marathon when you've likely not had much more training than running a few 5K races. Lots of people collapse during a marathon and discover underlying medical conditions as a result, or get a repetitive strain injury. They usually all bounce back.

Take a break, and come back to meditation in short stints. 20-30 minutes a few days a week. Talk to someone at the sangha. And it's OK to gently pursue philosophical discussion and thought that builds on dissolution of ego. Ultimately, you've gotten a glimpse of what's real beyond the self, which is an amazing and powerful gift.
 

Amadeus

Acolyte
Joined
Aug 27, 2024
Messages
471
Reaction score
1,077
Awards
9
Has anyone spent too much time mediating and what did it do to them?

What it can do. Depending on the practice you're doing and your experience. Things can go awfully wrong, even with the seemingly innocent practices.

Since my practices are mantra based I can share some things based on that.
You can over process your mind. It can go hype and remain hype, with no peace no harmony.
You can over process the energy, energy centers heating up, overclock them or whatever is the right word here.
Some link in the engine will overload, overheat, mess up under pressure.
You can overload from the good stuff, dopamine, then not feel normal anymore once it's gone.
You can screw something in the system that might take a while to recover.
Perhaps something could go "beyond repair". Maybe a different practice won't mix well with your usual "recipe" and cause temporary problems. There can be all kinds of scenarios.
It can bring out the worst of the worst.

Anything that takes 7 hours should be done after years of practicing.
I have done 12 and more hours of practices at once, for days, weeks, and yes many things went wrong for quite a while. :unsure:
Post automatically merged:

All kinds of imbalances may happen.
 
Last edited:
Top