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First you say to look it up on the Internet(modern), then you say my Daoist practices doesn't fit in under the modern umbrella. I even proved it was in my first message to you. That's why I said, you don't know what you're talking about.
Name a practice, technique, anything, or debate the actual Daoist practices I mentioned. You sound confused, lost, and talking in circles to play the "I'm always right" game. I've been talking about tulpas as they are...I don't know what the modern equivalent is because I never learned it online. You say the modern is wrong...okay, I take your word for it because I don't know. But I'm talking about tulpas at its original root word from Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism. Is it that hard to admit you didn't know their is a Daoist equivalent? I don't need to hear/read you're wrong, but you're taking shots at me to replace the feeling of what you feel. You don't know, and it's fine. Or prove I'm wrong..define the thing, describe the where and why. Boom, then it's a good argument. If you can't do that, then it's just talk, and self soothing. Over 300 words and it only takes less to prove me wrong...like I did you.
Buddy it's literally like talking to the wall with you. You don't understand what tulpamancy refers to in a modern context and refuse to do yourself a favor and look into it. I'll just assume you don't speak english, because the only other explanation is that you're trolling.
As entertaining as it is to watch the spiral I have better things to do. I won't be reading or responding to any of your messages in the future, enjoy your time on the forum.
Buddy it's literally like talking to the wall with you. You don't understand what tulpamancy refers to in a modern context and refuse to do yourself a favor and look into it. I'll just assume you don't speak english, because the only other explanation is that you're trolling.
As entertaining as it is to watch the spiral I have better things to do. I won't be reading or responding to any of your messages in the future, enjoy your time on the forum.
ahathoor define it. That's what he was talking about, described it, and the folks here. I never said I didn't look it up eventually.. being here I been looked it up. But that's not where I got my info on practicing. We're talking about practices. That isn't a technique. If you create a tulpa dog and walk it everyday it doesn't mean it's not a tulpa. It's using it in a way it wasn't intended for. Like evocation was a practice to bless meals and the farm, then at some point change to demons for monetary gain....it doesn't mean it not evocation. So when you say modern tulpamancy, that's not a practice. When talking about Daoist practices, an original tulpa and fulu ritual magic is the same thing. I defined it many many times...now you know how the wall feels lol.
See what I did there. We've been talking for a while and bringing up modern tulpamancy doesn't make any sense. If you want to walk a fulu talisman, it's weird, but it doesn't mean it's not a fulu talisman. Again it's a lame tactic to focus on a part of a message you can try to take shots with. Try again
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When I first came to this thread, I asked about what tulpamancy was. Did research on it, and left it alone. Right now it's not on my priority list. But interesting enough to try one day....with modifications of course.
There are those who feel that it's a pathway to mental health issues... Where's the research that supports that narrative?
Saying it's not a tulpa is also incorrect because it is using the exact same process to create it.
There is research on tulpamancy with documentation from psychologists, anthropologists, and neuroscientists. Rather than finding the creation as a sign of psychosis or dissociative disorder, researchers who have surveyed and interviewed members of the tulpamancy community report distinct mental health and cognitive benefits instead.
The research:
Tulpamancy has been around long enough to have over a decade of research.
As it stands, there's more research to support the theory that it can be beneficial. As far as we know, there are zero cases showing an impact to mental health towards Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)(what used to be known as multiple personality disorder). For those with preexisting conditions, the evidence shows it's still safer than staying in your own house.
With anything occult it's good to practice precautions, regardless. I'm not saying there's isn't any cognitive effect, there is. But it's not what many are thinking when they read into the tulpamancy topic.
If you watch the original practice of deity yoga:
-The disciple meditates until their concentration is absorbed by the being.
-while sitting in front of the picture, will shift their focus within and without, continuing imaginative exercises.
The difference is what it being used for. Spiritual oneness vs spiritual creation. I use the word creation loosely here. "Nothing is new under the sun." In many myths, the gods breathes life into wood/clay/dirt/ash... gives it an intelligence, then lastly an identity. Deity yoga being reversed in its intention here. The same ol' dirt, giving it's force to another.
The point: it's a dumb argument to link tulpamancy and mental health without real research or evidence. It's a bias, not a fact. To say it's not a tulpa is ignorant of what a tulpa is (a concentrated imagined being). The difference of creating an imaginary being to bring good vibes to a home, vs walking a talisman on a cord down the street...vast separation there. Tulpamancers aren't doing either one of that. I get the concern, but it doesn't come from knowing... It's merely thinking one knows.
In the occult circles, mental health is a very real thing. Want to know what practices have been linked case over case? Meditation, trance, mediumship, ritual magic, occult cosmology, high-stakes divination, fasting, sleep deprivation, rhythmic hyperventilation...small list, and each can lead to psychosis or other.
This is why forums exist. Not to just share, but to build support. Throwing ideas to the fringes doesn't stop the idea. If there's malignancy later, it festers alone if no outlet exists. No one practice is worse than the other if the result can be the same.
If it's been around this long, it has benefits someone is reaping. Fake practices don't have depth, and a catalog of successful experiments. Most businesses can barely hold on for 5yrs, let alone a decade.
Well this certainly has been an interesting topic to read through seeing the opinions expressed so far. I had wondered for a bit if what I was dealing with was potentially a tulpa of some sort, but I was also under the impression such things had to be crafted with deliberate intent and time. So part of me was also thinking a young child at the age of six wasn't just gonna spawn one on their first go at playing with imagination.
I'm starting to lean more towards I just got into a trance state and was tapping into some kinda hypnagogic like vision, since I later in life learned how to see this again while learning about scrying. Though I have heard people describe some paranormal entities looking similar to what I saw, which was a shimmering heatwave mirage-like affect overlaying what I was physically seeing.
I'm glad to see that the Jungian anima and animus was brought up. I've been circling that idea for a bit since that's where things seem to be leaning towards. Most of my interactions often occurs in dreams and synchronicities. I kinda also stumbled upon Active Imagination and there's also the fact a lot of his ideas seem to be fitting given she was also sporting four variations in her appearances. But I am also still open to the idea of it being something akin to the daimon, HGA, qareen, or fylgja (familiar).
Well this certainly has been an interesting topic to read through seeing the opinions expressed so far. I had wondered for a bit if what I was dealing with was potentially a tulpa of some sort, but I was also under the impression such things had to be crafted with deliberate intent and time. So part of me was also thinking a young child at the age of six wasn't just gonna spawn one on their first go at playing with imagination.
I'm starting to lean more towards I just got into a trance state and was tapping into some kinda hypnagogic like vision, since I later in life learned how to see this again while learning about scrying. Though I have heard people describe some paranormal entities looking similar to what I saw, which was a shimmering heatwave mirage-like affect overlaying what I was physically seeing.
I'm glad to see that the Jungian anima and animus was brought up. I've been circling that idea for a bit since that's where things seem to be leaning towards. Most of my interactions often occurs in dreams and synchronicities. I kinda also stumbled upon Active Imagination and there's also the fact a lot of his ideas seem to be fitting given she was also sporting four variations in her appearances. But I am also still open to the idea of it being something akin to the daimon, HGA, qareen, or fylgja (familiar).
Indeed, it does take time to create a tulpa. I'm not sure about a child at first go to create an insta-tulpa. But interesting enough, there is a superstition about not letting your children talk to their dolls too much or it may just talk back lol. That was probably at a time when we had better attention spans.
I create mine through a few means. Ritual, concentration (trance), and attention saturation exercises. Personally I think your version is better and takes less time. I'd continue adding more details daily until it's solidified in my awareness and vision. When I get lucky I can test it with friends to see what they can pick up on. Similar to the mirage effect, cold(warm) spots, shadows, or that feeling you get when someone is watching you. You may need to have the being feed from a cemetery if you're not getting the affect you're after. It has a strong yin aspect...especially if it has an entrance on the westside, I leave the tulpa there. But that's not a tulpa to ever bring home afterwards. The source can be anything as long as it has a strong affinity in what you're after. Try it out, just don't expect anyone to help you again.
Active Imagination is really good for interaction. My only complaint is, if you're not locked in you may just be having a fun imaginative journey. I try to get information from mine, and determine what the connection feels like. That way I'm more aligned when a real connection happens. Not easy though, but saves time. That's when a pendulum comes in handy.
In necromancy circles I've heard of that idea of it being a daimon, HGA, qareen, or fylgja. Another idea is that theirs a being, or substance, that takes whatever form any intelligence uses it for. For instance in evocation you can call a demon, or a literal dollar bill. You can even call on relatives that passed on. But is it really any of those? No clue. Just something I heard.
[Sorry for the cemetery bit. It just paints the picture I'm trying to convey perfectly. You can see why it would probably be effective done in that way. Just reverse the polarity to something positive and see if a friend can notice it. Not all sources are equal, so choose wisely.]
Indeed, it does take time to create a tulpa. I'm not sure about a child at first go to create an insta-tulpa. But interesting enough, there is a superstition about not letting your children talk to their dolls too much or it may just talk back lol. That was probably at a time when we had better attention spans.
I create mine through a few means. Ritual, concentration (trance), and attention saturation exercises. Personally I think your version is better and takes less time. I'd continue adding more details daily until it's solidified in my awareness and vision. When I get lucky I can test it with friends to see what they can pick up on. Similar to the mirage effect, cold(warm) spots, shadows, or that feeling you get when someone is watching you. You may need to have the being feed from a cemetery if you're not getting the affect you're after. It has a strong yin aspect...especially if it has an entrance on the westside, I leave the tulpa there. But that's not a tulpa to ever bring home afterwards. The source can be anything as long as it has a strong affinity in what you're after. Try it out, just don't expect anyone to help you again.
Active Imagination is really good for interaction. My only complaint is, if you're not locked in you may just be having a fun imaginative journey. I try to get information from mine, and determine what the connection feels like. That way I'm more aligned when a real connection happens. Not easy though, but saves time. That's when a pendulum comes in handy.
In necromancy circles I've heard of that idea of it being a daimon, HGA, qareen, or fylgja. Another idea is that theirs a being, or substance, that takes whatever form any intelligence uses it for. For instance in evocation you can call a demon, or a literal dollar bill. You can even call on relatives that passed on. But is it really any of those? No clue. Just something I heard.
[Sorry for the cemetery bit. It just paints the picture I'm trying to convey perfectly. You can see why it would probably be effective done in that way. Just reverse the polarity to something positive and see if a friend can notice it. Not all sources are equal, so choose wisely.]
Well as a child I did act out stories using my action figures and enjoyed creative stuff like legos, doodling, sculpting clay, deconstructing some things and putting them back together etc.
I just remember seeing Drop Dead Fred as a child and while it's not the greatest movie ever made the idea was intriguing. I wanted to see if I could force myself to see a being and see how detailed it can get. Spoilers it's nothing like that, but after discovering scrying and listening to a few things I can assume I've tapped into something that's a norm within that practice and after actually experiencing hypnagogic like states many times, I noticed a few similarities thus me assuming it's either a trance like state or some form of altered state at least.
When it comes to the mind's eye and visualization I'm still learning things but I have noticed there seems to be different degrees in how one "sees" things. There's the normal way I which I describe as thinking in terms of concepts and I can lightly attribute some visual details to it in the mind but I'm not seeing something pop up like an actual image via normal eyesight. But then there's moments where I'll seen things overlay on top of what I'm actually seeing with my eyes akin to that shimmering effect. Things akin to like seeing shadow figures, outlines of a body moving which the net seems to dub as glimmer man since it looks like the Predator cloaking. I've seen what looks like fire doing a very similar thing in my room once, I've also even seen things like ghost fireballs, will-o'-the-wisp, or hitodama / onibi literally beside my head while waking up feeling a faint vapor tendril coming off of it touching my head. I've seen apparitions of either what looks like person or some kinda cloud or textured pattern trying to assimilate a form of some sort but not quiet reaching a solid state. There's the typical blink and you miss it blur motions of things moving, I can go on and on. Then there's the intrusive thoughts and visions that sometimes happen. I'll either see or hear something and it'll have a distinct feel that's almost alien to my typical thought process especially when it comes to the voices as there's like this rippling sensation. But when it comes to the visions is more potent than the level of visualization I do as it will be something I can see for a brief moment that is akin to looking at an actual picture or seeing something playing out like a movie in the mind's eye and it can be a bit jarring as it feels almost like something that's been spliced into my coherent state like a channel got flipped for a split moment. Then there's moment when dozing off I can start to see images forming as I drift off and it's like somethings briefly projected on the back of my eyelids and I notice there can be a state of surrender that draws you into the vision but maintaining self awareness kinda helps pull you back away from it.
I wasn't aware of Active Imagination when I accidentally tapped into it as this was a little bit before looking more into Jung's work. But it happened and I encounter the female from my dreams while not intending to and something happening outside of my control while daydreaming kinda jolted me out of it. I'm still trying to get my mind more accustom to that receiving and exploring state without dictating and learning how to go about it like I did when it happened. I overthink things a lot so it's a bit of a learning curve for me. I do use a pendulum and pull tarot cards and I kinda take notes of how they react and retain what seems to remain consistent and slowly weed out things that are not as stable. I don't really do rituals or anything fancy though. I'm mostly just trying to communicate with what's visiting me. Though may formulating some routines might help with this.
Ah yeah the phenomena adopting to the user via things in the mind or being some what reflective of the individual in someway. That is certain noted among a lot of different people looking into this stuff. I've noticed that via how it changes stances depending on my mood or frame of mind regarding something and even tested it out via numerous anonymous divination readings and keeping tabs of results and my frame of mind when doing them and try to gauge what basis a reader might has via questioning. There's certainly something going on in that regard.
No worries on the cemetery bit as I can be rather wordy about things myself and I understand where you're coming from. I just don't think this is a tulpa or not the normal kind as it certainly seems to imply an internal anima-like figure or maybe a person daimon or a familiar but I'm still learning. Or it could be potentially something working through the anima or I'm just interacting with some aspect of conciseness itself and thus it's just a aspect of myself that has some autonomy so when I put it like that one could make an argument for it being tulpa-like to some degree. I'm really only getting into the occult to understand what it is I'm interacting with and I'm also working off the experiences I'm having with it to create artwork and other forms of creative outputs in regards to it.
Well as a child I did act out stories using my action figures and enjoyed creative stuff like legos, doodling, sculpting clay, deconstructing some things and putting them back together etc.
I just remember seeing Drop Dead Fred as a child and while it's not the greatest movie ever made the idea was intriguing. I wanted to see if I could force myself to see a being and see how detailed it can get. Spoilers it's nothing like that, but after discovering scrying and listening to a few things I can assume I've tapped into something that's a norm within that practice and after actually experiencing hypnagogic like states many times, I noticed a few similarities thus me assuming it's either a trance like state or some form of altered state at least.
When it comes to the mind's eye and visualization I'm still learning things but I have noticed there seems to be different degrees in how one "sees" things. There's the normal way I which I describe as thinking in terms of concepts and I can lightly attribute some visual details to it in the mind but I'm not seeing something pop up like an actual image via normal eyesight. But then there's moments where I'll seen things overlay on top of what I'm actually seeing with my eyes akin to that shimmering effect. Things akin to like seeing shadow figures, outlines of a body moving which the net seems to dub as glimmer man since it looks like the Predator cloaking. I've seen what looks like fire doing a very similar thing in my room once, I've also even seen things like ghost fireballs, will-o'-the-wisp, or hitodama / onibi literally beside my head while waking up feeling a faint vapor tendril coming off of it touching my head. I've seen apparitions of either what looks like person or some kinda cloud or textured pattern trying to assimilate a form of some sort but not quiet reaching a solid state. There's the typical blink and you miss it blur motions of things moving, I can go on and on. Then there's the intrusive thoughts and visions that sometimes happen. I'll either see or hear something and it'll have a distinct feel that's almost alien to my typical thought process especially when it comes to the voices as there's like this rippling sensation. But when it comes to the visions is more potent than the level of visualization I do as it will be something I can see for a brief moment that is akin to looking at an actual picture or seeing something playing out like a movie in the mind's eye and it can be a bit jarring as it feels almost like something that's been spliced into my coherent state like a channel got flipped for a split moment. Then there's moment when dozing off I can start to see images forming as I drift off and it's like somethings briefly projected on the back of my eyelids and I notice there can be a state of surrender that draws you into the vision but maintaining self awareness kinda helps pull you back away from it.
I wasn't aware of Active Imagination when I accidentally tapped into it as this was a little bit before looking more into Jung's work. But it happened and I encounter the female from my dreams while not intending to and something happening outside of my control while daydreaming kinda jolted me out of it. I'm still trying to get my mind more accustom to that receiving and exploring state without dictating and learning how to go about it like I did when it happened. I overthink things a lot so it's a bit of a learning curve for me. I do use a pendulum and pull tarot cards and I kinda take notes of how they react and retain what seems to remain consistent and slowly weed out things that are not as stable. I don't really do rituals or anything fancy though. I'm mostly just trying to communicate with what's visiting me. Though may formulating some routines might help with this.
Ah yeah the phenomena adopting to the user via things in the mind or being some what reflective of the individual in someway. That is certain noted among a lot of different people looking into this stuff. I've noticed that via how it changes stances depending on my mood or frame of mind regarding something and even tested it out via numerous anonymous divination readings and keeping tabs of results and my frame of mind when doing them and try to gauge what basis a reader might has via questioning. There's certainly something going on in that regard.
No worries on the cemetery bit as I can be rather wordy about things myself and I understand where you're coming from. I just don't think this is a tulpa or not the normal kind as it certainly seems to imply an internal anima-like figure or maybe a person daimon or a familiar but I'm still learning. Or it could be potentially something working through the anima or I'm just interacting with some aspect of conciseness itself and thus it's just a aspect of myself that has some autonomy so when I put it like that one could make an argument for it being tulpa-like to some degree. I'm really only getting into the occult to understand what it is I'm interacting with and I'm also working off the experiences I'm having with it to create artwork and other forms of creative outputs in regards to it.
That's my misunderstanding. I wasn't entirely sure if you were talking about a passive observation, or a creation of your own doing. Either can be observed as you had described. Depends on the phenomenon you're observing. Everyone, some more than others, are attractive to certain beings that benefit being around your state. They're in an active state of flux with can make consistency quite frustrating. With experience testing the limits of your observations, and ideas, you'll get there. The Japanese did a great job cataloging much of this phenomenon. If you research old Japanese (mainly Heian period), they call them yokai. You'll find familiarity in what you're seeing. Hindu, Buddhist, Daoist, and many others have a rich tradition cataloging the various phenomenon.
I've had similar experiences since childhood with seeing strange things. I was fortunate to have help from my community with understanding the strange phenomenon. I learned about Jung much later, and his teachings. He hit the nail on the head, and brought clarity to an obscure subject. Great scientist imo. I ran into a book on active imagination called, Inner Work by Robert Johnson. He explains it quite simply with methods. If you can't find it for free, message me and I'll send it to you.
Imo you're going about it the right way. It's better to learn through testing, than reading books. Though some books can teach you new methodologies, others are just guessing trying to sell copies. Esoteric communities offer the best teachings if you're try to develop a skill/sense. The older the tradition, the richer the teachings. Wish you the best in your endeavors.
Lol. I have no intention to discuss anything with you @albundi, I gave my viewpoint primarily for the benefit of readers happening upon this conversation. I'm writing now to set any questions about my intention to rest.
I was certainly not trying to personally attack anyone in this forum, I was talking about observations I have made in other spaces (Discord, Matrix, etc.) years ago.
I quoted you because I had a specific answer to a specific phrase you wrote, that's all.
have a good one
ps. thanks @ewiz for giving your viewpoint mirroring my experiences, I agreed with pretty much everything you wrote
Lol. I have no intention to discuss anything with you @albundi, I gave my viewpoint primarily for the benefit of readers happening upon this conversation. I'm writing now to set any questions about my intention to rest.
I was certainly not trying to personally attack anyone in this forum, I was talking about observations I have made in other spaces (Discord, Matrix, etc.) years ago.
I quoted you because I had a specific answer to a specific phrase you wrote, that's all.
have a good one
ps. thanks @ewiz for giving your viewpoint mirroring my experiences, I agreed with pretty much everything you wrote
Since you wrote your last message, others felt it was aggressive and out of context. On a slow forum(this site) ig 3 dms, and a few likes, is a lot confirm that in one day for this site.
Sure you weren't talking about anyone specific. It just so happened to be somewhere else but related to here? All anyone has to do is type in Google the op's username, and what will they find?? An exact match to your post, down to the specifics of your description. But coincidences happen, right?
That's a far stretch to think your viewpoint benefits the reader, yet added no value outside of "I care for you more than you". That's like Christians, and Muslims, coming on here ranting at us about burning in hell. Clearly ego and attention seeking behavior on the negative side of the spectrum.
