So, what exactly is a demon?

[SinisterYT]

Now that my pause in responses forced you to take a time out after your predictable reflexive response, maybe you spent some time contemplating the matter and sorted your emotions.

My explanation for my metaphysics regarding the nature of demons does none of the accusations you're making. Gatekeeping? That accusation doesn't even make sense. That with the others are all a projection of your imagination which you're reacting emotionally to. In a sense you're lashing out at your own imagined demons. Letting them control what you see and how you respond. Which is simply being contrarian. You've shown no indication of having any more than a googled in the moment understanding about what you're talking about.

However, if you made your own post where you set down independently your well considered metaphysics about the nature of demons, that will show your understanding and help others, like myself, gain insight into what you're talking about.

The thread topic is about demons specifically, not spirits in general. If there is a distinction for you, as there is for others

You haven’t actually explained your position in any real way. You’ve dodged nearly every direct question I’ve asked and instead layered your responses with vague language and passive-aggressive jabs about my emotions, understanding, and “reflexes.”

You say I’m being reactive and projecting, but that feels like a distraction from the fact that you still haven’t actually clarified what you mean. You accuse me of making assumptions, but so far, you’ve assumed I’m emotional, that I didn’t think through what I’m saying, that I’m reacting to “imagined demons,” that I only googled things in the moment, and that I lack insight....all without even asking what I’ve read, experienced, or actually believe.

This isn't about ego. I’m here because I want to understand other people’s metaphysics. I literally asked you to clarify. Instead, I’ve gotten generalities, sidesteps, and then a wall of accusations directed at me instead of the topic.

And honestly, if your theory really is strong and well thought out, you wouldn’t need to bury it under condescension or psychoanalysis of the person asking questions. You’d just explain it. I still don’t know what you actually believe demons are, outside of vague references to “bios,” “zoe,” and “alignment,” all of which you’ve refused to define clearly. I wasn’t trying to strawman — I was trying to understand.


If you really believe what you’re saying, then explain it. I’m not here to argue for the sake of arguing. But I’m also not going to pretend you’ve said something meaningful when you haven’t.

 

[Kepler]

You haven’t actually explained your position in any real way. You’ve dodged nearly every direct question I’ve asked and instead layered your responses with vague language and passive-aggressive jabs about my emotions, understanding, and “reflexes.”

You say I’m being reactive and projecting, but that feels like a distraction from the fact that you still haven’t actually clarified what you mean. You accuse me of making assumptions, but so far, you’ve assumed I’m emotional, that I didn’t think through what I’m saying, that I’m reacting to “imagined demons,” that I only googled things in the moment, and that I lack insight....all without even asking what I’ve read, experienced, or actually believe.

This isn't about ego. I’m here because I want to understand other people’s metaphysics. I literally asked you to clarify. Instead, I’ve gotten generalities, sidesteps, and then a wall of accusations directed at me instead of the topic.

And honestly, if your theory really is strong and well thought out, you wouldn’t need to bury it under condescension or psychoanalysis of the person asking questions. You’d just explain it. I still don’t know what you actually believe demons are, outside of vague references to “bios,” “zoe,” and “alignment,” all of which you’ve refused to define clearly. I wasn’t trying to strawman — I was trying to understand.


If you really believe what you’re saying, then explain it. I’m not here to argue for the sake of arguing. But I’m also not going to pretend you’ve said something meaningful when you haven’t.

Wrong again. I answered your questions, specifically and concisely. Unlike yourself where I asked you specifically if you understood what zoe and bios were in context of hylozoism. You didn't respond. Even after pointing this out it's pretty obvious you won't answer questions or state your own position. You're just going to keep flinging shit in the desperate hope something sticks

A result of you just not liking the answers you got and you said so. You got emotional and are continuing on that tangent. Now you're avoiding anything on the subject of demons at all except for lashing out against your misperceptions.

As was stated, perhaps you should post your own thoughts on the subject and stick to the subject of the thread.

 

[SinisterYT]

Wrong again. I answered your questions, specifically and concisely. Unlike yourself where I asked you specifically if you understood what zoe and bios were in context of hylozoism. You didn't respond. Even after pointing this out it's pretty obvious you won't answer questions or state your own position. You're just going to keep flinging shit in the desperate hope something sticks

A result of you just not liking the answers you got and you said so. You got emotional and are continuing on that tangent. Now you're avoiding anything on the subject of demons at all except for lashing out against your misperceptions.

As was stated, perhaps you should post your own thoughts on the subject and stick to the subject of the thread.

f all life informs the cosmos, why dismiss the idea that primordial life-force (“zoe”) could generate beings? You arbitrarily accept “bios” (conscious life), but not “zoe” (raw life essence)—which is funny because many esoteric systems do attribute spirit birth to raw vital forces.

I directly answered you question if I knew what those words meant right here, if it was not obvious...it's not some concept unheard of in this community. My apologies if I assumed that you were trying to be condescending or passive aggressive here

I’m “emotional” and “just don’t like your answers”—that’s not an argument, that’s a cop-out. Maybe I didn’t like the vagueness of your answer. Maybe I’m pushing back because I want to know what the hell you actually mean when you say things like “bios-created egregore birthed from life’s experience.” That’s poetic, sure, but it doesn’t explain how that leads to real-world experiences with entities like demons. This isn't even a conversation anymore.

If I’m being “contrarian,” it’s because I’m testing ideas. That’s how intellectual discourse works. If you’re that confident in your position, you shouldn’t need to psychoanalyze me to defend it. Just explain it. You keep calling me emotional, yet you're the only one being condescending af

You invited a conversation. I’m having one. If you don’t like the challenge, just say that. If you don't want to explain further than go about your business. I don't want demons to be real as a cope if you're insinuating that...bro a YN is just tryna understand your logic my man.

 

[Kepler]

I directly answered you question if I knew what those words meant right here, if it was not obvious...it's not some concept unheard of in this community. My apologies if I assumed that you were trying to be condescending or passive aggressive here

I’m “emotional” and “just don’t like your answers”—that’s not an argument, that’s a cop-out. Maybe I didn’t like the vagueness of your answer. Maybe I’m pushing back because I want to know what the hell you actually mean when you say things like “bios-created egregore birthed from life’s experience.” That’s poetic, sure, but it doesn’t explain how that leads to real-world experiences with entities like demons. This isn't even a conversation anymore.

If I’m being “contrarian,” it’s because I’m testing ideas. That’s how intellectual discourse works. If you’re that confident in your position, you shouldn’t need to psychoanalyze me to defend it. Just explain it. You keep calling me emotional, yet you're the only one being condescending af

You invited a conversation. I’m having one. If you don’t like the challenge, just say that. If you don't want to explain further than go about your business. I don't want demons to be real as a cope if you're insinuating that...bro a YN is just tryna understand your logic my man.

If you understood those words you would've known any demon(as previously defined) formed in that sense would cause the universe as we know it not to form, if it could form at all. It'd be like if a fundamental law or constant of nature was changed. This hylozoic axiom is a result of the immanent nature of the cosmology.

You're not offering a conversation. You're just pretending to knowledge that you don't have and digging your heels self-righteously about it.

 

[SinisterYT]

If you understood those words you would've known any demon(as previously defined) formed in that sense would cause the universe as we know it not to form, if it could form at all. It'd be like if a fundamental law or constant of nature was changed. This hylozoic axiom is a result of the immanent nature of the cosmology.

You're not offering a conversation. You're just pretending to knowledge that you don't have and digging your heels self-righteously about it.

Bro I could care less about coming off intelligent or winning this argument…can you please just explain how you view the origin of Demons without being condescending or please or go about your business.

Arguing with people like you does nothing good for my mental health, soul or knowledge. Notice most of my responses have been questions.

 

[Kepler]

Bro I could care less about coming off intelligent or winning this argument…can you please just explain how you view the origin of Demons please or go about your business.

Arguing with people like you do nothing good for my mental health and soul. Notice most of my responses has been questions.

In my general hylozoic metaphysics, after removing most other definitions for the term, it's an egregore(interdimensional entity as a product of bios) resulting from life's experience with the apparent appearance of a discrete arrangement of physical qualities in the natural world that turned out to be false and fallen from astronomical alignment. These contrasts with Angels that are in heavenly alignment.

Yet, many Demons still retain some cohesion. As a falsehood that leads to truth, a processor in the crucible of the soul. Sometimes positioned zodiacally connecting the entity to all sorts of specific conditions related to life's experiences from the individual to the national.
To survive the demon provides service and consume the souls of those that access their qualities(siddhis). In doing so removing the source of that bios from reincarnation and advancing the remaining forms of life by improving conditions through consuming demonically aligned souls and returning that material of the soul for the souls of others to realign, integrate and put on a proper vector.
Sometime the demon realigns and returns to Angelic.

From life(bios), not only human.

To life on other planets. Any and every form of biological life informs the cosmos.

Such a thing as demons from zoe is nonsense as it results in infinite regress.

Are you familiar with the hylozoic terms of "bios" and "zoe"?

any demon(as previously defined) formed in that sense would cause the universe as we know it not to form, if it could form at all. It'd be like if a fundamental law or constant of nature was changed. This hylozoic axiom is a result of the immanent nature of the cosmology.

 

[SinisterYT]

Excuse me (Further)

 

[Kepler]

Excuse me (Further)

Once you've shown you've made an effort to understand what's already been discussed, rather than me burdening you with the frustration of not understanding even more.

 

[SinisterYT]

Once you've shown you've made an effort to understand what's already been discussed, rather than me burdening you with the frustration of not understanding even more.

Are you okay? You're extremely adamant on being condescending towards me. Were you bullied growing up?

 

[Kepler]

Are you okay? You're extremely adamant on being condescending towards me. Were you bullied growing up?

Your ignorance about the subject is a fact and mentioning it isn't condescension.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

@Kepler @SinisterYT Girls, you're both pretty.

From life(bios),

I'm not a fan of this theory, it implies life having its source down here in matter, springing up out of people's psyches and shaping to zodiacal influences... Just cause. Do you truly think the essence of life cannot be found in less gross & intangible realms on its own, that meat is necessary for all life to spring?

There are a lot of specific details and narratives to your theory you have to justify, have you contacted or had direct experiences with demonic entities before, or is this all conjecture / stuff you've read from other occultists?

 

[Kepler]

@Kepler @SinisterYT Girls, you're both pretty.

I'm not a fan of this theory, it implies life having its source down here in matter, springing up out of people's psyches and shaping to zodiacal influences... Just cause.

There are a lot of specific details and narratives to your theory you have to justify, have you contacted or had direct experiences with demonic entities before, or is this all conjecture / stuff you've read from other occultists?

I didn't expect my position to be popular. As most occultists are transcendent, in the sense they model where there's a God and realm that exists outside the physical universe from which reality is constructed. An ideal realm. No evolution or time dilation or stuff like that.

My hylozoic model is immanent with natural selection creating, not some grand architect outside with ideal forms.

Yes, there's a lot going on that's implied.

Yes, direct experience with hyperphysical entities. Hyperphysical in the sense of existing independently and consciously in a multidimensional universe. A universe that has different extensions of spacetime but uses the same matter/energy along different extensions to result in an emanant co-creative reality where consciousness rises from innate life. And entity, as in not biological to this universe, as conscious being observed as a discrete arrangement of matter/energy from this spacetime.

 

[Lemongrass00]

So, invoking a Demon is just edgy therapy basically? So why are you here? I'm genuinely asking because in your world view, I don't really understand the point on demonic invocation if you just believe it's all imagination

it has immense value, symbolically invoking a demon is facing the depths of your own subconscious, a demon can symbolize unconscious patterns usually related to instinct and desire that subconsciously control the ego.

By invoking this demon and learning to become aware of these psychic patterns and feel it fully, it cannot control you anymore.

The psyche wants balance, because human beings symbolically are halfway between the divine (higher consciousness, advanced cognition) and between the infernal (our physicality, animal nature, base instincts, desire for survival, etc)

we need to work with all aspects of our existence to become whole.

 

[SinisterYT]

it has immense value, symbolically invoking a demon is facing the depths of your own subconscious, a demon can symbolize unconscious patterns usually related to instinct and desire that subconsciously control the ego.

By invoking this demon and learning to become aware of these psychic patterns and feel it fully, it cannot control you anymore.

symbolically the psyche wants balance, because human beings symbolically are halfway between the divine (higher consciousness, advanced cognition) and between the infernal (our physical, animal nature, base instincts, desire for survival, etc)

we need to work with all aspects of our existence to become whole.

Respectfully I think thats only half the story in regards to spirits. But I’ll let you cook, going to the gym and doing therapy can accomplish the same thing under this world view. I agree with you to an extent but I just don’t think it stops there.

 

[Kepler]

Respectfully I think thats only half the story in regards to spirits. But I’ll let you cook, going to the gym and doing therapy can accomplish the same thing under this world view. I agree with you to an extent but I just don’t think it stops there.

What's the other half of the story? Do you have something definite in mind where you think it continues to?

 

[IllusiveOwl]

The psyche wants balance, because human beings symbolically are halfway between the divine (higher consciousness, advanced cognition) and between the infernal (our physicality, animal nature, base instincts, desire for survival, etc)

There's a lack of a cosmology here, where do you think humans fit in existence spiritually?

People have used demons to symbolize their base and animal natures, Set is my personal favorite representation, personally I think it's messy and symbology gets in the way of practical psychological work, but that's not what all books on Demonology and esotericism are about. There is a profound difference between self-help and the Occult, they're to completely different realms but here demons seem to be entirely regulated to the small world of cultivation.

What do you think happens when you die? Do you have a soul, or are you just a program on a computer that will fizzle into nothing when your brain stops receiving blood? Where were you before you were born? What are you? What is life itself, and is it limited to just complexes like animals, or do the things that make us, cells, and the things that make them, atoms, do they count as being alive? Have you contemplated eternity into your picture of the world? Have you ever contemplated the nothing that scientists, Buddhists, and occultists say everything comes from?

 

[Kepler]

There's a lack of a cosmology here, where do you think humans fit in existence spiritually?

People have used demons to symbolize their base and animal natures, Set is my personal favorite representation, personally I think it's messy and symbology gets in the way of practical psychological work, but that's not what all books on Demonology and esotericism are about. There is a profound difference between self-help and the Occult, they're to completely different realms but here demons seem to be entirely regulated to the small world of cultivation.

What do you think happens when you die? Do you have a soul, or are you just a program on a computer that will fizzle into nothing when your brain stops receiving blood? Where were you before you were born? What are you? What is life itself, and is it limited to just complexes like animals, or do the things that make us, cells, and the things that make them, atoms, do they count as being alive? Have you contemplated eternity into your picture of the world? Have you ever contemplated the nothing that scientists, Buddhists, and occultists say everything comes from?

Unsure what you mean by where humans fit spiritually. In this immanent spiritual universe model all biological life is an evolutionary product of natural selection and contribute to the diversity and progress of the cosmos. These are neither the end result of the universe or why it's here, the same applies to humans. If you're asking me for the meaning of life... lol. Even if I had that answer, there is no way it could be appreciated until understanding what I'm saying is true.

Cells are alive and independent, but co-operate. Yes atoms, even more basic forms of matter have the principle of life. Consciousness rising from complexity, not consciousness as an innate as in cosmopsychism. Even simple biological life is aggregate and emanates from physical qualities. More complex life is the same principle extended to co-operative cellular participation and natural selection.

The soul is included in this model, influenced by human behavior through the perception of hyperphysical beings who align with the astronomical cosmos.

Angels hold, strengthen and sort souls and demons weaken and consume in this model.

Indeed I've contemplated eternity, when thinking about the universe it's impossible not to. It's unclear how you arrived logically at thinking otherwise.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

The soul is included in this model, influenced by human behavior through the perception of hyperphysical beings who align with the astronomical cosmos.

Angels hold, strengthen and sort souls and demons weaken and consume in this model.

I'm lost, you had said that extra dimensional entities like demons were entirely the product of living beings, but here you say they're separate, under the sway of archetypal influence in a way that makes them as mechanical as the 12 hours on a clock (we have a differing view of Astrology as an art, but that's your hyper focus and I don't have the patience to go into it). I disagree and claim they're just as independent and as free as you or I, they've simply "chosen a path" and as a result of going down it, have polarized themselves and are able to influence us from their level of existence above ours of materiality.

I believe a lot of what @Lemongrass00 refers to is the sloppy and archaic practice of attributing all negative psychological functions to "demons", as the church had done in the glory days of the Inquisition. I do not believe this, it's a cope that lays the blame off of us for our naturally predatory, selfish, and violent natures as living material animals who have evolved out of the brutal circle of life. Yes, Demonic beings can influence us, but every time you have a desire to do something nasty, it isn't Beelzebub whispering in your ear.

Indeed I've contemplated eternity, when thinking about the universe it's impossible not to. It's unclear how you arrived logically at thinking otherwise.

It's unclear and illogical because I wasn't asking you.

 

[Kepler]

I'm lost, you had said that extra dimensional entities like demons were entirely the product of living beings, but here you say they're separate, under the sway of archetypal influence in a way that makes them as mechanical as the 12 hours on a clock (we have a differing view of Astrology as an art, but that's your hyper focus and I don't have the patience to go into it). I disagree and claim they're just as independent and as free as you or I, they've simply "chosen a path" and as a result of going down it, have polarized themselves and are able to influence us from their level of existence above ours of materiality.

I believe a lot of what @Lemongrass00 refers to is the sloppy and archaic practice of attributing all negative psychological functions to "demons", as the church had done in the glory days of the Inquisition. I do not believe this, it's a cope that lays the blame off of us for our naturally predatory, selfish, and violent natures as living material animals who have evolved out of the brutal circle of life. Yes, Demonic beings can influence us, but every time you have a desire to do something nasty, it isn't Beelzebub whispering in your ear.

It's unclear and illogical because I wasn't asking you.

What I said in my opening post was

it's[demon] an egregore(interdimensional entity as a product of bios) resulting from life's experience with the apparent appearance of a discrete arrangement of physical qualities in the natural world

Meaning it's a co-operative with all life creating in the universe. Not coming down from on high. Bios is an egregore in this model, just as much as demons are.

But, from this spacetime, humans as complex beings have greater conscious perception to organize objective thought in co-existing realms to truth as it's being discovered. We have a strong influence on the co-operative from our ability to truthfully(to the best of our abilities) articulate attributions of celestial metaphoric value(which has life too) into the 'thought realm'(which is all life too) which gives rise to Angels that align with this astronomical truth and universe. While what was false may retain some truth to a limited perception, which could be valuable to life at that stage of development, it is ultimately a falsehood and path to destruction if unaltered. Demons leading astray.

It's unclear and illogical because I wasn't asking you.

Makes sense. Gonna turn off the autowatch.

 

[Konsciencia]

Can the Demon be part if your Pysche as well? This is my take on this and that is that we all are Universes a part from The Source. So, as far as what I gather between my experiences and watching YouTube. It's that we somehow create our own Gods. Including, the Demons. But then again, what do I know what's truth or not.