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Does Ether/Aether still exist?

Tahseen

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I heard a lot of time, even in my friend circle some of my friends believe... that Ether the 6th element do exist and they said, it was intentionally being removed from the text books and other things due its connection to occultism or self reflection ... some says Ether helps us in astral projection ... etc etc

So, dear wizards of intellectuality ... does anybody knows the actual mystery behind it ???

I m very curious to know and learn about it....
 

Firetree

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We have already known about ' it ' for some time . What is 'it' ? basically it is a force or substance outside of the material solid world of the four elements . That concept has gone under different names at different times and been seen or 'understood' in different ways . Each time we come up with a concept for it we attach certain meanings and principles and speculations about how the Universe works , and after more research , we find things wrong or tweak or add other info about it and as the old becomes the new it gets given a different name .

Plato talked about a '5th element ' - to keep it simple, many refer to that (in the elemental context ) as 'spirit' . The alchemists called it 'Quintessence ' ( I have some writings about tthe old and new forms of this in my number theory paper ) .

But the baby never got thrown out with the bath water because even modern science recognizes that 'space' is not an empty medium - it is full of ..... 'potentials' . Modern concepts include ; 'quantum foam' , the 'Higgs Field' concept ( which is close to the old ether concept ) , Einstein's 'cosmological constant' which is a 'mathematical ether' , an updated form of 'Quintessence'

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(note the 4 principle with an extension to 5 )
 

artemisarcane

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Never heard of 6th element. But geometrically, i think you could extend from 5th.

Current physics does not support saying that aether exists in the classical sense, but some modern theories keep aether-like concepts alive as hypotheses. You can look for "Aether Physics" articles on this site:
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Lu_CiD

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I heard a lot of time, even in my friend circle some of my friends believe... that Ether the 6th element do exist and they said, it was intentionally being removed from the text books and other things due its connection to occultism or self reflection ... some says Ether helps us in astral projection ... etc etc

So, dear wizards of intellectuality ... does anybody knows the actual mystery behind it ???

I m very curious to know and learn about it....
I can tell you hor to make the chemical ether with a cpl buckets some ice bleach and acetone. heh not sure about an element though thats a new one for me
 

ahathoor

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Uuuh well no it doesn't, not in the way "they" mean at least, though I'm not entirely sure who "they" are. :p

Let me just give you a quick rundown on what this whole "aether" business is and how it's related to magic. In ancient Greek cosmology, aether was a word for the "stuff" of the upper sky. Later, in the 19th century, after having understood the mechanism of sound as waves in air, physicists were working out what light is, and posited it (light) to be waves in a more "subtle" medium than air, which they called aether.

It used to be the "state of science" for a while, until physics figured out about electromagnetism and photons, and so the idea of a material medium that resonates carrying light ("aether") was abandoned as obsolete. It was removed from textbooks because science found a better explanation for how light "works". (Better as in more in line with how light actually behaves.)

Here's where the confusion comes in. We have an ancient word connected with the upper sky ("outer spheres" in geocentric astrology), and an obsolete concept from 19th century physics... Western magic has an ancient and deep connection with both ancient Greek cultural heritage and with astrology, and the magical practicioners of the 19th and early 20th century were very much into adopting scientific terms... so of course they used the term "aether" to mean a number of things, typically related to some kind of "subtle" or "astral matter" , or energy, or something. What was exactly meant by it depends entirely on the person and tradition using it.

So no, there is no one unambiguous thing called "aether", and there was no conspiracy to hide it from physics textbooks.
 

artemisarcane

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For Greek Cosmology,
The concept of aether (or ether) is the indispensable bridge between the divine, eternal heavens and the changing, physical life of humans on Earth.

Aristotle's Definition: The Unchanging Fifth Element (De Caelo)

In his fundamental cosmological treatise, On the Heavens (De Caelo), Aristotle formally introduced aether (which later alchemists and medieval scholars termed the quinta essentia or "quintessence") as a physical element completely distinct from the four earthly elements of earth, water, air, and fire.

While the four sublunary elements only move in straight lines (radially, either falling downward due to weight or rising upward due to lightness) and are subject to constant decay, generation, and death, the aether of the upper heavens is completely incorruptible.

How the Aether Affects Human Life: The Principle of Continuity

How does this perfect sky-substance affect us down here on Earth? Aristotle bridges the gap between the eternal aether and mortal human life in the opening of his Meteorology (Book I, Chapter 2, 339a).

This is the central quote that grounds the entire astrological and cosmological doctrine of celestial influence:

Because the sublunary world (the realm of humans, weather, and the four elements) is physically and energetically contiguous to the heavenly spheres, the circular revolutions of the aether act as the ultimate "efficient cause" of all terrestrial change.

Aristotle argued that the complex, overlapping circular motions of the planets in the sky "step down" their eternal, formatting power through the atmosphere. This celestial movement stirs up the sublunary elements, causing the seasons to turn, the weather to fluctuate, and biological organisms to undergo birth, growth, and decay
 

Ignotus

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A lot of people who get into astral projection or deep meditation run straight into it. That buzzing, electric feeling, the luminous space you float in, that's the Ether. Once you tune into it, it gets way clearer. It's not gone, just hidden in plain sight. Most people just forgot how to perceive it.
 

Tahseen

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Never heard of 6th element. But geometrically, i think you could extend from 5th.

Current physics does not support saying that aether exists in the classical sense, but some modern theories keep aether-like concepts alive as hypotheses. You can look for "Aether Physics" articles on this site:
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I don't know
Uuuh well no it doesn't, not in the way "they" mean at least, though I'm not entirely sure who "they" are. :p

Let me just give you a quick rundown on what this whole "aether" business is and how it's related to magic. In ancient Greek cosmology, aether was a word for the "stuff" of the upper sky. Later, in the 19th century, after having understood the mechanism of sound as waves in air, physicists were working out what light is, and posited it (light) to be waves in a more "subtle" medium than air, which they called aether.

It used to be the "state of science" for a while, until physics figured out about electromagnetism and photons, and so the idea of a material medium that resonates carrying light ("aether") was abandoned as obsolete. It was removed from textbooks because science found a better explanation for how light "works". (Better as in more in line with how light actually behaves.)

Here's where the confusion comes in. We have an ancient word connected with the upper sky ("outer spheres" in geocentric astrology), and an obsolete concept from 19th century physics... Western magic has an ancient and deep connection with both ancient Greek cultural heritage and with astrology, and the magical practicioners of the 19th and early 20th century were very much into adopting scientific terms... so of course they used the term "aether" to mean a number of things, typically related to some kind of "subtle" or "astral matter" , or energy, or something. What was exactly meant by it depends entirely on the person and tradition using it.

So no, there is no one unambiguous thing called "aether", and there was no conspiracy to hide it from physics textbooks.
So it means... it just a overhyped word and obselete concept ... thanks a lot 👏 ahatoor
 

ahathoor

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So it means... it just a overhyped word and obselete concept ... thanks a lot 👏 ahatoor
Pretty much, if you look at it from a scientific worldview perspective.

However, reality can be looked at from multiple perspectives. In magical practice, especially in hermeticism and eclectic witchcraft, the Empedoclean elements of air, water, fire and earth are still important concepts, because they talk to important components of material existence, and can arguably be linked to scientifically understood states of matter: earth / solid, water / liquid, air / gas, and fire / plasma.

Within this system, aether holds an important role as the "fifth element", external to but encompassing / overseeing the four, often associated with space, light or spirit. In the Hindu system of wind, water, fire and earth, the fifth element is space / void (akasha / sunya),
 

Tahseen

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Pretty much, if you look at it from a scientific worldview perspective.

However, reality can be looked at from multiple perspectives. In magical practice, especially in hermeticism and eclectic witchcraft, the Empedoclean elements of air, water, fire and earth are still important concepts, because they talk to important components of material existence, and can arguably be linked to scientifically understood states of matter: earth / solid, water / liquid, air / gas, and fire / plasma.

Within this system, aether holds an important role as the "fifth element", external to but encompassing / overseeing the four, often associated with space, light or spirit. In the Hindu system of wind, water, fire and earth, the fifth element is space / void (akasha / sunya),
Thanks again 🤝
 

Ziran

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So, dear wizards of intellectuality ... does anybody knows the actual mystery behind it ???

This is the best explanation I've found to date. It's not perfect. The researcher is a "believer" which calls into question their objectivity on the matter. But, regardless, it's still a valid proof of the "ether" which is in-between, surrounding, and including everything in the material world.

Code:
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"
Quantum Physics and the Existence of God
by Stephen Priest
Faculty of Philosophy, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 2JD, UK

Interpretations of quantum physics presuppose the reality of consciousness. But if a minimal realism about the external world is true, then the consciousness presupposed by quantum reality cannot be only that of the scientific observer, cannot be only ‘local’ but must be ‘global’. Global consciousness is argued to have all and only the essential properties of God. Quantum reality depends on God’s consciousness and the physical world depends on quantum reality. Therefore, the physical world depends on God’s consciousness...."

{Continued in url above}
 

BlackRose97

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It's interesting to see how the discussion around this keeps shifting. Whether it was called the 5th element in the past or some form of 'quantum' space today, it really seems like we’re all just trying to describe the same underlying connection that links everything. It’s cool to see these different perspectives coming together thanks for sharing the thoughts on this, definitely gives me a new angle to think about.
 

Robert Ramsay

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This is the best explanation I've found to date. It's not perfect. The researcher is a "believer" which calls into question their objectivity on the matter. But, regardless, it's still a valid proof of the "ether" which is in-between, surrounding, and including everything in the material world.

Code:
Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

"
Quantum Physics and the Existence of God
by Stephen Priest
Faculty of Philosophy, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 2JD, UK

Interpretations of quantum physics presuppose the reality of consciousness. But if a minimal realism about the external world is true, then the consciousness presupposed by quantum reality cannot be only that of the scientific observer, cannot be only ‘local’ but must be ‘global’. Global consciousness is argued to have all and only the essential properties of God. Quantum reality depends on God’s consciousness and the physical world depends on quantum reality. Therefore, the physical world depends on God’s consciousness...."

{Continued in url above}
Man goes to the doctor, says he hurts all over.
Doctor says "show me where it hurts"
Man pokes at his head, his leg, his back, his chest...
Doctor stops him. "You've broken your finger."

The point being that if consciousness is what you're using to investigate the world, you shouldn't be surprised to see it everywhere.

Also, interpretations of quantum physics do not presuppose the reality of consciousness - that in itself is an interpretation on top of the interpretation :) This is the same idea that the moon doesn't exist unless someone looks at it, which is pretty much nonsense.

Christof Koch, neuroscientist:
"But as a scientist I can say the following: I can go back to Plato, or to Descartes, and for the past 2,300 years we’ve not made any progress on the philosophical aspects of consciousness. Philosophers have been profoundly wrong in almost every question under the sun over the last 2000 years. You should never listen to the answers of philosophers, but you should listen to their questions."
 

Tahseen

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Man goes to the doctor, says he hurts all over.
Doctor says "show me where it hurts"
Man pokes at his head, his leg, his back, his chest...
Doctor stops him. "You've broken your finger."

The point being that if consciousness is what you're using to investigate the world, you shouldn't be surprised to see it everywhere.

Also, interpretations of quantum physics do not presuppose the reality of consciousness - that in itself is an interpretation on top of the interpretation :) This is the same idea that the moon doesn't exist unless someone looks at it, which is pretty much nonsense.

Christof Koch, neuroscientist:
"But as a scientist I can say the following: I can go back to Plato, or to Descartes, and for the past 2,300 years we’ve not made any progress on the philosophical aspects of consciousness. Philosophers have been profoundly wrong in almost every question under the sun over the last 2000 years. You should never listen to the answers of philosophers, but you should listen to their questions."
Thanks for the unique perspective !!!

But, according to the qoutation of Christof Koch, you shared ...

If "we've not made any progress on the philosophical aspects of consciousness"

Then, can you tell us ... what is Consciousness according to you ?

"If it's everywhere"

Thanks.
 

Ignisss

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From an occult perspective, I would describe consciousness as the inner witness the part of us that observes thoughts, sensations, dreams and subtle impressions without being identical to them. Different traditions call it spirit, the higher mind, the divine spark or the silent observer.

consciousness appears everywhere. That consciousness is the lens through which every plane, symbol and spiritual experience becomes known to us. In that sense, aether may be understood not as a hidden physical element, but as the subtle field or symbolic “space” through which mind, spirit and matter interact.

Meditation, ritual and astral work may produce genuine experiences of unity, vibration or presence. However, occult experience is personal gnosis, not laboratory proof. It can reveal meaning to the practitioner without automatically proving that a universal ether or cosmic consciousness objectively exists.
 

Robert Ramsay

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Thanks for the unique perspective !!!

But, according to the quotation of Christof Koch, you shared ...

If "we've not made any progress on the philosophical aspects of consciousness"

Then, can you tell us ... what is Consciousness according to you ?

"If it's everywhere"

Thanks.
IMO, consciousness is a kind of 'software' running on a kind of 'hardware', though of course this is only a metaphor, and neither of these bear any relationship to the software or hardware of our normal computers. To begin with, there is no separation between the 'hardware' and 'software', and in the same way, as the neuroscientist Anil Seth says, there is no separation between the brain and the body either.

There is a paper which throws some light on this:
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the TL;DR is that they built an exact simulation of a microprocessor, down to every wire and every transistor, and then set it to running video games. Then they 'investigated' it in the same way as neuroscientists investigate the brain - but breaking little bits and seeing what happened (normally with the brain, these experiments happen on brains that have already been broken if you have any qualms about what neuroscientists do :) ).

The conclusion they came to was that - even though they knew every exact detail about the hardware (which we certainly do not about the brain) they could find no way of understanding the software purely by manipulating the hardware. Sound familiar? :)

Except it's almost certainly more physically complex than that. What I'm working on at the moment is trying to combine the multiverse we live in and the way we experience it. I was also a bit irritated that the sci-fi author, Neal Stephenson, got to the meat of it first :-(

“Okay. Here goes,” I said. “The premise, here, is that the brain is loaded up with a pretty accurate model of the cosmos that it lives in.”
“At least, the local part of it,” Orolo said. “It needn’t have a good model of other galaxies, for example.”
“Right. And to state it in the terminology of the old interpretation that fids are taught, the state of that model is a superposition of many possible present and future states of the cosmos—or at least of the model.” He held up a finger. “Not of the cosmos, but—?”
“But of hypothetical alternate cosmi differing slightly from the cosmos.”
“Very good. Now, this generalized cosmos-model that each person carries around in his or her brain—do you have any idea how it would work? What it would look like?”
“Not in the slightest!” I said. “I don’t know the first thing about the nerve cells and so on. How they could be rigged together to create such a model. How the model could be reconfigured, from moment to moment, to represent hypothetical scenarios.”
“Fair enough,” Orolo said, holding up his hands to placate me. “Let’s leave nerve cells out of the discussion, then. The important thing about the model, though, is what?”
“That it can exist in many states at once, and that its wavefunction collapses from time to time to give a useful result.”
“Yes. Now, in the polycosmic interpretation of how quantum theorics works, what does all of this look like?”
“There is no longer superposition. No wavefunction collapse. Just a lot of different copies of me—of my brain—each really existing in a different parallel cosmos. The cosmos model residing in each of those parallel brains is really, definitely in one state or another. And they interfere with one another.”
He let me stew on that for a few moments. And then it came to me. Just like those ideas we had spoken of earlier—suddenly there in my head. “You don’t even need the model any more, do you?”
Orolo just nodded, smiled, egged me on with little beckoning gestures.
I went on—seeing it as I was saying it. “It is so much simpler this way! My brain doesn’t have to support this hugely detailed, accurate, configurable, quantum-superposition-supporting model of the cosmos any more! All it needs to do is to perceive—to reflect—the cosmos that it’s really in, as it really is.”
“The variations—the myriad possible alternative scenarios—have been moved out of your brain,” Orolo said, rapping on his skull with his knuckles, “and out into the polycosm, which is where they all exist anyway!” He opened his hand and extended it to the sky, as if releasing a bird. “All you have to do is perceive them.”
“But each variant of me doesn’t exist in perfect isolation from the others,” I said, “or else it wouldn’t work.”
Orolo nodded. “Quantum interference—the crosstalk among similar quantum states—knits the different versions of your brain together.”
“You’re saying that my consciousness extends across multiple cosmi,” I said. “That’s a pretty wild statement.”
“I’m saying all things do,” Orolo said. “That comes with the polycosmic interpretation. The only thing exceptional about the brain is that it has found a way to use this.”

Stephenson, Neal. Anathem . Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.
Obviously, there's a lot of extra work to do from this idea, and that's what I'm up to at the moment.
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And to keep more closely on topic, people seem to be constantly trying to reinvent aether (consciousness, 'coherent field', etc.) because if there was an all-pervading medium, it would make simple explanations more possible.

My view is the old saying "There's a simple answer to everything - and it's wrong!" :)
 
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RoseRain

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You might be interested in a book that came out this year by Ivo Dominguez Jr. The title of the book is Ætheric Magic, A Complete System of Elemental Celestial & Alchemical Magic.
 

Like Ferro

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I heard a lot of time, even in my friend circle some of my friends believe... that Ether the 6th element do exist and they said, it was intentionally being removed from the text books and other things due its connection to occultism or self reflection ... some says Ether helps us in astral projection ... etc etc

So, dear wizards of intellectuality ... does anybody knows the actual mystery behind it ???

I m very curious to know and learn about it....
For me its the intelligence in everything, cant remove that
 

ahathoor

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And to keep more closely on topic, people seem to be constantly trying to reinvent aether (consciousness, 'coherent field', etc.) because if there was an all-pervading medium, it would make simple explanations more possible.

My view is the old saying "There's a simple answer to everything - and it's wrong!" :)

Okay let's talk scientific philosophy. I actually hate the word "consciousness" for its ambiguity bordering on uselessness. It's like if we want it to, it means recognizing oneself in a mirror, if we want it to, it means recognizing one's situation in an environment and responding to it (ie. a form or component of intelligence), and if we want it to, it "means" Brahman/Atman. Only the last one has literally any relation to what humans colloquially call soul or spirit.

It's absolutely impossible to have any meaningful discussion on words that don't mean anything to this degree.

Brahman/Atman are religious ideas shrouded in mystery, so let's say qualia instead. The existence of subjective phenomenology, eg. of the experience of "redness" apart from the physical spectrum refracted from a surface.

And honestly, I have never heard anyone give any even nearly convincing discussion of qualia as emergent. Not as in "proving its emergence", but even formulating the problem in a way that shows hope of being provable. That's because it's not a part of objective existence. You can recognize and "measure" intelligence in the world as a form of emergent complexity, like how you would a Sierpinski triangle or a persistent shape in Conway's game. With qualia, there's nothing to see or recognize.

So maybe it's fundamental to reality (hence idealism), or maybe it doesn't exist (hence materialism). If were emergent... well i can't even begin to formulate how to describe it in a way that could facilitate meaningfully examining it (nor have I ever read or heard anyone come close to doing so without committing some catastrophic intellectual distortion), so I'm leaning toward it being a total and unmitigatable mystery.

Hence we're back to religion, and Atman (or anatman / annatta).
 
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