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Freemasonry Q&A

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There seems to be a lot of misinformation on this board as to what Freemasonry is and entails so I thought I would create a Q&A thread to answer some questions, as well as provide a brief overview.

Perhaps the most widely used definition of Freemasonry by the fraternity is that, "Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols". Well this definition is entirely correct it leaves the outsider dumbfounded without much gained from the discourse.

Instead consider the following: masonry started in the stone guilt of Scotland, but whereas our ancient brethren worked upon physical Stone, we are speculative Mason to work on ourselves as living stones, there to fit ourselves for the builders use", before I go any further, that builder being God. Continuing.."we work upon ourselves as living stones, breaking off the rough edges thereof by the use of our working tools, as to shape ourselves into better men. Men who are more moral and ethical then we were the day before. Masonry is a system of moral self improvement, and to that end while I cannot expect another man to have the same morality as I do expect them to have a sense of morality.

What we give men, is a Rite of passage wherein they go through and initiate which is in its essence a morality play based on biblical narratives. In fact we use the King James Bible in our lodges and all of our ritual of our craft is derived there from, with the exception of certain elements that come from our ancient profession however many of those working tools are also mentioned in the Bible. Through this initiation a man becomes a brother and his taken by the hand by a group of men, often more well seasoned and More travel than he, who then proceed to take him under their wing and help him become a better man through mentorship and Masonic education. This should not be confused with the society of favors and boons and we are expressly prohibited from using the membership of another brother of giving us a better deal for their labors or otherwise expecting preferable treatment.

This initiation also impresses upon the candidate certain values in life lessons which if done properly should stay with them for the rest of their life and influence their actions and resolve accordingly. Are modern society is lost a sense of initiary right of passage for young men and we see the consequences of this each and every day as youth and fortunately, often thinking they don't have any other options, go down pass which are often a downward spiral, and often, quite sadly leading to a point of no return.

I must also be clear that we are not the world savior nor do we claim to be nor would we want that burden. -and yet yet Masons tend to be men who have seen much darkness in the world and having some capacity dedicated themselves to bringing just little more light into it, even if it would be a losing battle. Is that is who we are and it is better to fail with ones integrity and values intact than to be jaded and lose your soul.

Do not misunderstand me. We offer no path to salvation nor are we by any means a religion, yeah it is sad that every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion, as the word religion means bound to/in relationship coming from the Latin religare, and each brother's relationship with their God and they're opening themselves to be guided there by is the light of Masonry.

We do more towards community service and for charity then most organizations that are actually listed as charities, not for the glory of having done a good deed nor for a belief of being saved by works which we are often accused of, but rather simply because we believe it is the right thing to do. We are not listed as a charity we are listed as a fraternity but charity is one of the three principle rungs of Masonry and while it does not save in and of itself, it can bring one to witness of the light.

Q. Can anyone be a mason?
A. No, we are an initiatory mystery tradition and therefore being thus, one must be initiated into Masonry. This does not mean that they cannot read books on masonry and apply that philosophy to their life but until they are initiated into a regular and well governed Lodge, which being sexual have a proper charter in lineage, they are not a brother of the fraternity.

In order to be eligible for initiation, one must be a man, freeborn, off lawful age, of recommendable reputation and reporte , any most professor believe in a supreme Creator deity as no atheist can be made of Mason.

In explaining why no atheist can be made a Mason I will point out and use as an example Alcoholics Anonymous, which was started by a mason. That brother saw that what we do in Lodge worked, helping men become better men, and he applied that format where appropriate to help people with their substance abuse addictions. Just as alcoholics anonymous uses your belief in a higher power to help you through substance abuse, so does masonry use your belief in a supreme Creator deity to help mold and shape you into a better man. It is how our system works, the fuel that runs the engine of Masonry.

Q: Do Masons Gatekeep Knowledge?
A: the only knowledge we have gatekeep is the experience of our rituals and how said rituals are put together. Our rituals are based on the King James Bible and a Renaissance education and there is nothing within them that is unknown to the rest of humanity, though they might be very esoteric points of interest today and that's not known by many. We I have no knowledge of the world that you cannot find at your local library, well that you can't find at a University library, and have no knowledge of any scandal that would give cars to the history books to be rewritten. If you look at the back of a Coca-Cola bottle you will see a list of ingredients which are made public so that you can make an informed choice upon your health. Within this list of ingredients there is absolutely nothing you are unable to look up in a Merc index or Google. That is to say, with all of those ingredients are known to man at large know the names and chemical structures of those chemicals may not ring a bell to the layman's everyday understanding. The only thing secret about that bottle of Coca-Cola is the exact ratios of those ingredients in the process by which they are put together to create the product that is the experience of that Coca-Cola bottle. Masonry is no different as while we are not a brand trying to sell a product, nobody wants to join your mystery tradition or go see your movie when they already know what's going to happen. So, yes, we gate keep that experience for that reason and also so we don't have the wrong sorts of people coming into masonry which would compromise the whole operation. Gatekeeping is not a bad word and it is absolutely vital to maintaining an ongoing living tradition. It used to be that we called it vetting or vouching and this was understood to be necessary.

Q. Can women be made masons.
Not within any legitimate large or Grand Lodge jurisdiction, No. It is actually against our landmarks and core principles to do so and no grandmaster can undermine this ancient landmark. The reason for this is that Masonry is centered around a ceremonial drama that gets it the nature of what it is to be a man, what is expected of you as a man in society and how to earn your wages. It was written in a light of a man's experience and to promote bonding among brethren and it is so in crucially important for men to have male only spaces to facilitate that sort of brotherhood. It is psychologically healthy for us and should come under no fire that the Red Hat Society for Woman or the various and numerous women support groups groups do not.

We do have sisters, most of which who are members of the Order of The Eastern Star which is from a women's perspective being based on the five heroines of the Bible. There is also Amaranth, White Shrine, Daughters of the Nile, Daughters of the Moakanna, and S.O.O.B. among others.

We also have youth groups: Order of demolay for boys and young men and Rainbows, Jobs Daughters and Triangle girls for girls and young women.

Q. Does Freemasonry recruit?
A. We have an ethic of not recruiting and yes it has hurt our membership and an era where most people don't actually interact as a community anymore aside from the community chatter page on Facebook. It is a real challenge and we're exploring how to be seen in our communities while also sticking to our time honored values and traditions, but no we don't recruit. In fact a truth be told we don't feel very comfortable doing it because again it goes against our very ethic and culture. So unless it's your own father asking you when you're finally going to do the thing because it runs in the family, and mind you we don't have legacies you are not a shoe in just because your father or grandfather was a mason, you aren't going to be asked to be a mason. You have to approach a Mason about seeking initiation. That's how it works.

Q. Do Masons practice Magic?
A. Freemasonry is a mystery tradition not a magical tradition so the answer there is a blatant no. You will not be taught in masonry how to do magic. Most Brothers don't even have any idea what an egregore is. I suppose when making a mason, if you were conscious of the egregore Freemasonry were actively trying to impress that upon the psyche of the candidate you might argue that that is nearing if not a magical formula. However being a mystery tradition what you actually do in the ritual is create the right conditions for the Edgar Gordon symbolism of Freemasonry to be impressed upon the candidate in a more natural setting and means with a degree of passivity upon your part as to not influence him so much as to ingrain your own interpretation of the unfolding mysteries. You are being brought into something and you were receiving it, but you were left to explore and come to terms of what you find as per your own journey.

That having been said if you are a magician, especially a ceremonial magician, learning the skills to be a competent ritualist in Masonry will greatly aid you in your ceremonial Magic. That just stands to reason.

Q. Is there any Qabbalah in Masonry?
The short answer is no. Freemasonry is not a Qabalistic tradition though as it emerged out of a Christian culture and Christianity has both Roman and Jewish roots, we do share certain imagery found in Qabbalah by virtue of that imagery being pertinent to the Old Testament. The ott's gym or tree of life for example is nowhere found in Masonry as an official teaching or curriculum. We also have to understand that at the time, when Freemasonry was coming into its own, we had a revival of Hermeticism and other philosophies, and because at the time, most people could not read or write, they used common pictorial symbolism to represent certain concepts and talking points within their field for profession. Think of it this way, in comparison to a modern PowerPoint slideshow though I might have just dated myself. And the slideshow you have bullet points which briefly list talking points that the speaker will then use as a guide reminding him what to pontificate upon next. Hermeticism, Alchemy, Freemasonry and even the Qabbalah of the time, all you used the same common images such as the sun and the moon and so forth to be emblematic of certain teaching they had although they taught different things in regards to these symbols and employ them in a different way within the context of their institutions and traditions. In short people used symbols instead of words to communicate.

The more complicated answer is that Albert Pike was quite enamored with Qabbalah and his writings, including his rituals, may or may not include material he got from that tradition. It is very hard to say for sure because on the one hand while it is probable given his interest, none of the examples are mutually exclusive to Qabbalah and could have just as easily come from other sources contemporary to his time and access. Therefore we are dealing not with absolutes but with probabilities and regardless Freemasonry does not teach a Qabalistic theology, cosmology or framework. In fact it has nothing to say in regards to theology or cosmology save for it sold Dogma being a belief in a supreme Creator God.

Q. Is Freemasonry Hermetic?
A. See the previous question regarding shared imagery sets. The short answer again is No Freemasonry is not a Hermetic institution. However there were branches and movements within Freemasonry yet one point in time that believed one of the Central and key figures of our mythos was one in the same with Hermes. There are some interesting things that beg the question but it cannot be proven one way or the other and the Freemasonry doesn't tend to dwell on it. Freemason repair is very well with her medicine but in and of itself it does not have any teaching regarding the Divine Nous, any nous or any core teaching of Hermeticism. It is actually far more related to Rosicucianism and if you see any kind of alchemical imagery, which you won't see anything it is traditionally exclusive to Alchemy unless you're going through the Scottish Rite, it will be because of rosicrucian influence not Hermetic influence - with the caveat of the influence of individual brothers who may have been Hermeticists.

Q. Who is the god of Masonry?
A. There is no God of Masonry and you are never asked to believe in a specific God, you are only required to believe in a god who is supreme and some kind of architect of creation. The details and specifics of this and your cosmology are left to you and the god that you believe in will likely be the god of your own religious or faith background or to whatever sense of spirituality you have come to later in life. See masonry has this radical position that it is not our place to come between any man and God and we will not do so. Your relationship to God is between you and God. In fact it is very unlikely that you will even be questioned as to the specific details of minutia of your belief. You will likely be simply asked if you believe in God and that answer will be taken upon the honor system. This is a sacred trust within Freemasonry, well putting our trust in God that it is said that he does work in mysterious ways. It is also been an issue for us because there have been individuals who have joined the fraternity under false pretenses or in the twisting of interpretation of their views in order to get in. What I can say is that is on their honor and character and not ours and we do our best to rectify these situations.

Q. I heard that once you get to x degree you find out your worshiping Lucifer.
A. Lucifer is not relevant to Masonry. That entity does not exist in any of our rituals or ceremonies. People often quote a passage from page 321 of Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike out of context. In this passage they snippet Lucifer the light bearer. What the passage actually says is, "the apocalypse is to those of the 19th degree, the apotheosis of that sublime faith, which strives to God alone and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. Lucifer, the light bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the spirit of darkness! Lucifer, Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with its splendors and intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual and selfish souls? Doubt it not".

What bike is saying here is that the Prince of darkness does not deserve such a beautiful name as Lucifer we'll just prior stating that and no uncertain terms Freemasonry despises Lucifer. He then goes on to say Lucifer's is either the false light or that he distorts otherwise abuses the light to Blind instead of enlighten. When he talks of sensual souls he is talking about those who are overcome and reveling in the world if you denial or blindness of the true spirit, that is to say, the worldly, and in particular the merely worldly.

Now Albert Pike was a Christian who lived in the 1800s and if memory serves he was a Presbyterian. He is clearly talking about the Christian conception of Lucifer not the Roman Lucifer who has been mightily misaligned. He is clearly talking to a Christian audiences even now most Masons are Protestant Christians. It is also very unlikely that he could have known that the use of the word Lucifer in the KJV was due to a poor translation from the Latin Vulgate. You see Lucifer was never supposed to be part of Christian scripture. St. Jerome had Helel ben Shahar changed to Lucifer as a smear campaign against St. Lucifer. Yes, there was a St. Lucifer. If you read the book of Isaiah it will tell you that it is referring to the King of Babylon. Now of course you will not find a king of Babylon named Helel and that was not his name. Helel was the god of Babylon, their view of the planet Venus. As Venus rises in the sky it is overcome by the light of the sun before it can reach the highest point and this has been interpreted as one or more other gods casting Lucifer out of the heavens. It is from this that the Christian story of Lucifer's fall is derived. This change in Scripture was a momentous turning point in Christianity because Satan which was a title just meeting adversary was also associated with this newfound Lucifer and the fall from the grace of God of certain angels was then taken to represent a premeditated rebellion in heaven. This led to the publication of numerous catalogs of the ranks of the infernal army such as the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum. This also led to rampant and widespread fear which was capitalized on for political and financial reasons, waiting to the witch hunts in certain books such as a Discovery of Witchcraft. Even by Pike's time, fear and superstition of witchcraft, well not typically resulting in mobs with pitchforks, we're still very much common place and we see many folk remedies and works to combat the work of the devil.

Q. So can a Luciferian be a Mason?
A. If their conception of Lucifer is the Christian conception of Lucifer the answer is going to be a hard and emphatic No.

-and the truth of the matter is that they are probably going to spook the brethren who are likely Protestant Christian and not get in. Well we are not supposed to let our own personal religious positions dictate our votes for candidacy, this will in this instance happen without the brother even though they are being biased because it is so ingrained into the fiber of their being.

If they are referring to the Roman God of enlightenment, the conversation becomes far more nuanced.
You must Believe in a supreme Creator Deity in order to take your Obligation as a Mason. It cannot be believed by you to have been a created being. Being Supreme it must be the utmost with nothing beyond or higher than it.
Now a belief in Lucifer is not the same as taking your obligation in the name of Lucifer. You could take your obligation in the name of God which you do believe in, and work with Lucifer as a patron in your own personal practice what you do at your own time and by your own mileage and results. So the question we are really looking at is, can Lucifer be seen as a supreme being under which you can then take your obligation.

The short and simple answer is that Lucifer is not depicted as a Supreme being. He emerged as a fusion of Hermes and Apollo, neither of which are transcendent gods, and his mother is given as Aurora, the dawn. And some accounts his father is given as being the four winds. That would put him post creation. However being the god of enlightenment if you believe he came into being when the first being became enlightened of itself you could argue that if not a Supreme being he would be pretty darn close coming into existence when God realized that God was God. Perhaps God being omniscient always knew that God was God but you see the argument.

We can come to the conclusion that no, a belief in Lucifer is not sufficient in and of itself to be made of Mason.

However we must be very careful in this ruling and what it means for our heathen brethren. Odin is not depicted as a Supreme being. He is The offspring of a giantess and a God that is so subject to the laws of this temporal world. He can be harmed and even lost an eye although granted by his own hand. So how do heathen brethren reconcile this with the requirements of Masonry. Well some believe that when Odin made that sacrifice and became enlightened, having received the ruins, that this was no different than receiving the word and becoming one with God.

That is fair, but this is not what their ancestors believe to know it and so if it is more important with their personal belief in a relationship with Odin is then how Odin is typically depicted in the religion then we must look at how a brother personally sees Lucifer in their own personal theology and not to how he is depicted in a culture or depiction that the brother may not even agree with. But we should not try to redefine traditions that are not ours it is perfectly fine to have a different interpretation of our spiritual experiences in our ancestors would have had. There really isn't anything else to say on the matter.

Q. Can a Satanist be made a Mason?
Satanism is an atheistic movement conceived of, and coined by Anton LaVey. As no atheist can be made a mason Satanism in and of itself will not give you the qualifications to be made a Mason. Now that having been said even though Satanism is an atheistic movement and their own website says that you must be an atheist to be a Satanist, what LaVey actually said was that if you were going to believe in a God believe in that God which has utility to you and helps you grow or otherwise attain your aims as a person. That's what they took a very utilitarian approach to God and I don't know that I can say that it was worshiping and therefore what he's talking about would qualify. It's certainly makes one's got a god of convenience. That said levay did not forbid belief in God and did not dictate that you should agree with his views on selecting a god to believe in.

So while satanism is absolutely atheist, going by Levay's ridings you could be atheist and also a Satanist, you just cannot profess that Satanism is theistic.

Therefore again we have to look at the personal beliefs and worldview of the candidate in question. Satanism will not not satisfy the requirement but some theistic belief held simultaneously, might.

I want to stress that I have never known a brother who is let into Masonry after professing Satanism but I, in the name of integrity, am playing devil's advocate. However, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the tenants of satanism, which are actually pretty solid and how they treat other people, or otherwise considered incompatible with the teachings of Freemasonry. This being because Satanism revels in the human animal and embraces the carnal nature of man, being of course a cathartic counterculture to the Christian purity culture of the 50s and 60s and prior. Freemasonry is very much an organization rooted and giving yourself to the light of God and being in service to your creator which then leads you to Civic service within his creation. They just have two completely different frames and I would say that your Freemasonry is going to hinder your Satanism in your Satanism is going to hinder your Freemasonry such that well I don't see it wrong to experience both in your lifetime I would not recommend trying to do both at the same time. I think that is a fair take.

Q. Can a Wiccan be made of Mason?
A. Possibly! If you believe in a god and goddess that are co-equal neither one of them is supreme and that would rule you out if you would not be able to meet the qualification. However if you believed in the dry and you absolutely could provided you meet the other requirements.

Q: can a Buddhist be made a Mason?
A. Again, possibly, depending on whether that Buddhist religious and spiritual views allow him to meet the requirements. We do not discriminate based on religion but your religious background will either allow you to meet the requirements of masonry where it will not. Buddha never taught for or against an Atman and therefore never gave a definitive answer for or against the existence of the Brahman. In fact there is a famous story where a man, believing in God, could hardly function because he was worried of God always looking over his shoulder, came to Siddhartha for insight. Siddhartha said to this man that no God does not exist. Another man who believed God did not exist and that there were no consequences for his actions asked to Darth the same question regarding the existence of God and Siddartha said to him that God did exist. That man, in turn, became concerned in regards to his actions and shaped up. What was the Buddha playing at? His teachings focused more on the needs of this life and how to avoid suffering in this life. The man who had believed in God could barely function and was in suffering because of his attachment to his conception of God. Likewise the man who did not believe in God was also suffering because of the attachments to his habits and thus God was offered as a locus, I'll be at arguably and external one.

One could even argue that Buddhism is not a religion because it is not based in a relationship to a God. However, while we in the west typically like to distinctly categorize things and specific boxes nothing exists in a vacuum and in the East Buddhism is well admixed with Hinduism, traditional Chinese medicine, and is even found its way to Japan where it becomes add mixed with practices like Shinto. In fact we should not forget that Buddhism comes out of a Vedic and therefore Hindu culture. Not only did the Buddha not say that the Brahmin did not exist or did exist, he said that was a question for the religious priest of the community. Freemasonry a similar view as well it does not take a utilitarian approach to God and that one's belief must be sincere and well founded, it does likewise leave religious matters up to religions and does not attempt to speak for, usurp or undermine any religion. Freemasonry is not a substitute for religion, it works in concert with your religious faith.

Q. Are you the Illuminati?
A. No, the Illuminati was shut down and 1784 and when it did exist, we did not get along with them. They store imagery and reputation and even operated out of a building that used to be in the Sonic Lodge and this is why a number of people even still today are under the belief that they infiltrated us even though they never did infiltrate any Masonic government. The founder did attain to the degree of fellow craft and certain individuals who had either already been kicked out of Masonry or otherwise thought the allure of the Illuminati, joined it instead.

Q. What is the highest degree?
A. The highest degree of Freemasonry is that of the third degree bearing the title Master Mason. For the most part which one has attained this degree they are told everything that has been conveyed to us through tradition about the story of our origins end of going through the stone guilds. They also have voting rights and complete transparency within the craft Lodge system. Now I save for the most part because there are certain elements that due to space and the evolution of the degrees, what's taken out and put into the Mark Master. There is also a degree called the past master degree which is an officer's degree pertaining to lessons on how to govern a lodge. These things encapsulate the full craft Lodge system and the Royal Arch degree, the original 4th degree, provides a sequel which offers a resolution to certain cliffhanger narratives.

Today the mark master and Royal arts degrees are conferred by independent body called the York right chapter. Degrees of independent bodies are considered on the level or parallel to the third degree and cannot, buy Masonic law, convert any more authority then a Grand Lodge which again is based in the Craft Lodge system. So for example while the mark master degree is now under the jurisdiction of the Royal Arch chapter and within said chapter it is the entry degree where in the Royal arts degree is the highest conferring full voting rights within that body, neither are higher than the third degree of The Craft Lodge because no independent body can rise higher in authority then the craft Lodge and they shall only be considered masonry and so far as they are built upon the foundation of and recognized by a craft Lodge system that is properly chartered in lineage.

The degrees of the independent bodies of the York and Scottish Rite, then get into the events of history coming after the biblical narrative of the first temple, notably the building of the second temple and the Chivalric era of Christian knighthood. The Northern Masonic Jurisdiction of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, even has degrees pertaining to events and U.S. all expressing various lessons that be can be learned from set events.

Q. Do you come from the knights Templar?
A. Even as Masons we cannot prove that. Our Lord says that the Templars found certain accounts of the original builders of King Solomon's Temple in the ruins thereof and when the Catholic Church betrayed them they had found refuge in our Stone guilds where they conveyed that story unto us. Does it was said that this was a catalyst which propelled us from your operative masonry to the speculative philosophical masonry of today. However, other accounts credit the rosicrucians for being this catalyst. While the rosicrucians, had a remarkable impact upon Freemasonry, Freemasonry had already shown signs of becoming speculative some 200 years or more prior to Rosicrucianism being heard of.

The biggest issue with the claim that the Templars conveyed to us our current law and story is that our ritual was not always based on the legend that it is now. Prior to this it was based in the story of Noah and there is even a degree called the Noah kite degree still preserved within the Allied Masonic Degrees that is based in this system.

What I can tell you is this: the Templars were betrayed in seeking refuge in the early the Templars were betrayed and seeking refuge in the early 1300s. Our earliest reference to a speculative Freemasonry was in 1390. That is a mere 100 years. There was also a former Templar stronghold close by to where Freemasonry was started in Scotland. Now I do not know whether a member of those first guilds ever shook the hand of a Templar or talked to them about their discoveries. However The lure of the local area would have been full of Templar stories at the time and this no doubt would have influenced a fledgling and establishing mystery tradition who would have drawn from their roots and local law to establish their identity. So yes I believe there is a connection but it may not be the connection that most are hoping for.
 

Roma

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most widely used definition of Freemasonry by the fraternity is that, "Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols".

I have often asked brethren why a system of morality should be veiled? Surely that makes it harder to practice.

No one had any idea - except Albert Mackey

Albert Mackey: The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols," has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome. But this definition contains the exact principle that has just been enunciated. Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols.
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Is it likely that Mackey could not tell a science from a philosophy? He makes that distinction in the naming of his book

The Symbolism of Freemasonry: Illustrating and Explaining Its Science and Philosophy, its Legends, Myths and Symbols.

So what is a science of morality?

Is that science now lost to the brethren?

Is the word "morality" a veiling?

Verb. Sap.
 

stratamaster78

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I really appreciate such a detailed and informative post.

My Grandfather was a Mason and as a child it drove me crazy that he wouldn’t tell me anything about it.

I was too young to understand the secrecy aspect.

But I vividly remember the ring he wore. It was square on the top with a Burgundy color stone with Square/Compass/G logo overlayed.

He was the best ‘Man’ I have ever been around in my entire life and he definitely took his vow of secrecy serious.
 
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I have often asked brethren why a system of morality should be veiled? Surely that makes it harder to practice.

No one had any idea - except Albert Mackey

Albert Mackey: The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols," has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome. But this definition contains the exact principle that has just been enunciated. Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Is it likely that Mackey could not tell a science from a philosophy? He makes that distinction in the naming of his book

The Symbolism of Freemasonry: Illustrating and Explaining Its Science and Philosophy, its Legends, Myths and Symbols.

So what is a science of morality?

Is that science now lost to the brethren?

Is the word "morality" a veiling?

Verb. Sap.

The morality itself isn't really veiled. It the a system of how that morality is inculcated that kept secret and even then, much of it can be understood by an inquisitive mind willing to read our public publications and apply our moral teaching through the good counsel therein. Again, what is secret is our ritual experience, a shared experience which bonds us together as Brothers in-house certain symbols refer to and are used in our contemplation of our moral teaching.

I know it is hard to believe that we are gatekeeping morality or rather moral self-help techniques. However keep in mind that while our system is a system of morality it also serves the purpose of giving men a right of passage in a sense of brotherhood.

Originally our secrets were trade secrets because we were operative Stone guilds. Later they became the secrets of a mystery tradition because again no one wants to join a mystery tradition that has no mystery to it. Later still it was not safe to be a mason. Mini Masons died under Hitler's reign during the second world war. That probably isn't something that you were taught in school but it is true. Although if you are familiar with Maggie you were probably familiar with the forget-me-not.

The truth is today we have our secrets for two reasons: I.) To protect our ritual so the experience isn't ruined or somebody doesn't taint it, as it is very meaningful to us. -and 2.) To see if you are capable of keeping a secret. if I cannot trust you with a handshake or a password how can I trust you to tell you that my marriage is feeling and be secure and knowing that you won't go in blab about it to the rest of the town.

I don't know how it was when you went to school but when I went to school the girls would take a piece of paper and they would write things on this piece of paper and fold it and such a way is to create a fortune telling device. They would not tell the boys how to make it and oftentimes they wouldn't even tell girls outside of their friend group how to do it. Now what is the big deal about such a plaything that you would gate keep it? Why gate keep a party trick so? Did these girls believe that they generally possessed a fortune-telling device? No!, of course not, that is silly. You see it was never about the piece of paper or what was written on it. It was all about the experience of that secret that they shared which brought them together and marks them as different from the rest of their peers. It wasn't nessisarily this elitist thing a feeling better than others that we know children can be cruel. It was about sharing that secret with your friend. That builds trust, and yields fond memories, even if it was a stupid secret. Now I would never say that our secrets in masonry are stupid but a lot of you might. If you truly knew you might think that we were nerds. You might just not see the point.. and there may not be a point to see from the outside. That is the thing about masonry we can't really define it as a noun because it's a mystery it's something that has to be experienced.

It doesn't make it harder to practice because once you become a Mason you are in the club, you have complete transparency. It makes it harder to practice if you haven't been initiated and that's by design, for the aforementioned reasons. I think a lot of people miss that point, because they don't understand how you can be part of something where you are quote unquote left in the dark. I am not in the dark however I have come to full light in Masonry. Yes it's true before you go through the initiation you don't know what you're in for because if you did it would not have the impact on you that an initiation should have on somebody. Once you have gone through those ceremonies however everything is in the light. Nothing is obscured and if you don't like what you see you are free to leave at any time. Oh sure, the candidate doesn't have a clue. They know that each brother is gone through it before them and we're apparently perfectly fine but the fact of the matter is they don't know what's going to happen to them. Nothing bad happens to them but they don't know that, they've never gone through it before. Initiation is intimidating. When you are about to be initiated you may very well be on the edge of your seat. That is also my design. With apprehension and anxiousness comes being in the moment, leading to a more visceral experience. Having the candidate a little unnerved is not a bad thing so long as they're not so worried about the future that they're not paying attention to what is happening to them in the moment.

I think everybody should get initiated into something at some point in their life. I don't care if it's in the Sonic body or not but that kind of writing passage is so very healthy to the psyche and it should be on everybody's bucket list.

As for Mackey's use of the word Science, you are reading far too into it. We have to keep in mind that Mackey lived in the 1800s and was actually a teacher of Pike. The word science was not used the same way then as it is used today. It just wasn't. Nowhere and anything that you cited was he clearly talking about empiricism or the scientific method.

The word science means 'to know' or 'to observe' and thus a science is a method or system by which we can observe and come to know a subject. Today when we use the word science it is implied that we are talking about an empirical method of observation and peer review, and that being empirical this subject is going to be an object of study. Back in the day however the word science was far broader in its application.

When Mackey refers to a science of morality he is talking about a method and a system by which we can observe morality in our lives in this come to know moral virtues.

If however we choose to read into it then my answer to you would be that yes there is a lost empirical science, as we started as a trade guild and most Freemasons today do not know how to craft the architecture that is used to teach the moral lessons of their craft.
 

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So the word "morality" is not itself a veiling?

If it were, there might be a whole science for Masons to discover.

A first step might be discovering why some lodges have a diagonal pavement instead of a rectangular pavement.

The science is there, but concealed. Examples can be found in the structure of cathedrals where deliberate irregularities are concealed by decoration and substructures
 
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So the word "morality" is not itself a veiling?

If it were, there might be a whole science for Masons to discover.

A first step might be discovering why some lodges have a diagonal pavement instead of a rectangular pavement.

The science is there, but concealed. Examples can be found in the structure of cathedrals where deliberate irregularities are concealed by decoration and
substructures
No, the word is pretty straightforward. Morality is morality it's not some code word. Freemasonry teaches that morality on which all men can agree. Ultimately we are talking about simple stuff that you should not need Freemasonry to understand. Basic morality like you shouldn't cause unnecessary suffering and you shouldn't take things that aren't yours. Those are things most of us can agree on. The idea that we should treat people right is not a hard concept and you don't need masonry for that. You don't need masonry to be a better man either you can already be doing that work but Freemasonry brings you into a fraternity of men who likewise are doing that and this provides fellowship towards that aim.

The nitty gritty of it is reforming our habits and keeping our emotions and desires in due bounds. Yeah we all know we should eat healthy and take care of ourselves but how many of us are inclined day-to-day to make a good choices. We are inclined to make good choices and then we wonder why we never stick to our diets. We first have to realize it as we evolved we didn't always know when we were getting our next meal we are designed to crave carbs and sugars and those things that are going to stay with us as fuel reserves. That wouldn't be a problem if we didn't live in a modern world where all of that is at our fingertips. we evolved and scarcity and now that we are in bounty we overindulge. Until we understand that we aren't aware of why we are inclined to have that habit unless we can't do much about it because we don't realize we have a problem to address.

The tools of Freemasonry allow us to reframe our relationships into contemplate whether they are healthy or unhealthy and to develop the habits upon which a healthy relationship is dependent.

You can want to be a better person that is the first step. However knowing that you should be better and wanting to embody certain virtues is not the same as doing the work to actually embody those virtues. If you don't even know your nature , if you don't know how your body works and how your mind works how can you possibly hope to get them in proper order? It is very very unlikely that you are going to get lucky and stumble into fine-tune precision of the human animal. It just isn't going to happen.

This is why mentorship is so important. this is why proper education is so important. This is why I meditation and introspection and contemplation are so important. I will also tell you right now and hear that motivation is not enough. If you are always waiting to be motivated to do something you're not going to get a lot done in your life. Discipline is far more valuable than motivation. If you have motivation, excellent, ride it, but motivation is not reliable. It won't stay with you, discipline will.

Here's a secret about very motivated people. They're always busy. They are always busy because being motivated is having a fire under your ass. Do I mean by that? You have to keep feeding a fire or it will go out? Isnt it so? Motivated people keep going because the moment they stop they risk losing that motivation. The thought of getting stuck in a rut off and terrifies them, as it should because they don't know that they're getting that motivation back. The truth is most of us don't know how to get ourselves started. Envision yourself as a push lawn mower. You often have to pull the cord several times before the motor starts. If a running motor is motivation, keeping in mind that a motor provides kinetic energy for something to move and the word motivation is related to the word motivate which also means to move something, then discipline is the cord which cranks the motor. Discipline is what gets us started, creating the motivation. You won't always have motivation but through discipline you will be able to transmute that resting energy into energy in motion.

If you go read the first chapter of Morals and Dogma which talks about the first degree of the Scottish craft system, you will find that Pike talks a lot about learning how to harness forces and channeling them to do work instead of letting them dissipate and be wasted. He is telling you that disciplines control over your emotions and your thoughts is so foundational that it is presented as the first lesson. That is another point as well, once you have motivation what do you do with it? How do you apply it to do the work that will lead you to the arrival of your aim? Whatever the answer will be will also be a discipline.

You want to go looking for secrets and wisdom, start with that one. That is the science of discipline an adjustment proper use of these forces and faculties put towards your values and empowering your virtues: this is a system of morality.

As for the tesselated floor or checkered floor as many people like to call it, there is no real secret here as to why some are diagonal and some are horizontal and some have fancy borders of One design while others incorporate a completely different style. The fact of the matter is we have no idea what it's supposed to look like. We have no idea what it's supposed to look like because that style, or styles plural, were made popular because of descriptions of King Solomon's Temple which no currently living person has ever seen
 

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there is no real secret here as to why some are diagonal and some are horizontal and some have fancy borders of One design while others incorporate a completely different style. The fact of the matter is we have no idea what it's supposed to look like.

You will have noticed that diagonal pavements have both wardens in the West.

What is the implication?
 
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No, the word is pretty straightforward. Morality is morality it's not some code word. Freemasonry teaches that morality on which all men can agree. Ultimately we are talking about simple stuff that you should not need Freemasonry to understand. Basic morality like you shouldn't cause unnecessary suffering and you shouldn't take things that aren't yours. Those are things most of us can agree on. The idea that we should treat people right is not a hard concept and you don't need masonry for that. You don't need masonry to be a better man either you can already be doing that work but Freemasonry brings you into a fraternity of men who likewise are doing that and this provides fellowship towards that aim.

The nitty gritty of it is reforming our habits and keeping our emotions and desires in due bounds. Yeah we all know we should eat healthy and take care of ourselves but how many of us are inclined day-to-day to make a good choices. We are inclined to make good choices and then we wonder why we never stick to our diets. We first have to realize it as we evolved we didn't always know when we were getting our next meal we are designed to crave carbs and sugars and those things that are going to stay with us as fuel reserves. That wouldn't be a problem if we didn't live in a modern world where all of that is at our fingertips. we evolved and scarcity and now that we are in bounty we overindulge. Until we understand that we aren't aware of why we are inclined to have that habit unless we can't do much about it because we don't realize we have a problem to address.

The tools of Freemasonry allow us to reframe our relationships into contemplate whether they are healthy or unhealthy and to develop the habits upon which a healthy relationship is dependent.

You can want to be a better person that is the first step. However knowing that you should be better and wanting to embody certain virtues is not the same as doing the work to actually embody those virtues. If you don't even know your nature , if you don't know how your body works and how your mind works how can you possibly hope to get them in proper order? It is very very unlikely that you are going to get lucky and stumble into fine-tune precision of the human animal. It just isn't going to happen.

This is why mentorship is so important. this is why proper education is so important. This is why I meditation and introspection and contemplation are so important. I will also tell you right now and hear that motivation is not enough. If you are always waiting to be motivated to do something you're not going to get a lot done in your life. Discipline is far more valuable than motivation. If you have motivation, excellent, ride it, but motivation is not reliable. It won't stay with you, discipline will.

Here's a secret about very motivated people. They're always busy. They are always busy because being motivated is having a fire under your ass. Do I mean by that? You have to keep feeding a fire or it will go out? Isnt it so? Motivated people keep going because the moment they stop they risk losing that motivation. The thought of getting stuck in a rut off and terrifies them, as it should because they don't know that they're getting that motivation back. The truth is most of us don't know how to get ourselves started. Envision yourself as a push lawn mower. You often have to pull the cord several times before the motor starts. If a running motor is motivation, keeping in mind that a motor provides kinetic energy for something to move and the word motivation is related to the word motivate which also means to move something, then discipline is the cord which cranks the motor. Discipline is what gets us started, creating the motivation. You won't always have motivation but through discipline you will be able to transmute that resting energy into energy in motion.

If you go read the first chapter of Morals and Dogma which talks about the first degree of the Scottish craft system, you will find that Pike talks a lot about learning how to harness forces and channeling them to do work instead of letting them dissipate and be wasted. He is telling you that disciplines control over your emotions and your thoughts is so foundational that it is presented as the first lesson. That is another point as well, once you have motivation what do you do with it? How do you apply it to do the work that will lead you to the arrival of your aim? Whatever the answer will be will also be a discipline.

You want to go looking for secrets and wisdom, start with that one. That is the science of discipline an adjustment proper use of these forces and faculties put towards your values and empowering your virtues: this is a system of morality.

As for the tesselated floor or checkered floor as many people like to call it, there is no real secret here as to why some are diagonal and some are horizontal and some have fancy borders of One design while others incorporate a completely different style. The fact of the matter is we have no idea what it's supposed to look like. We have no idea what it's supposed to look like because that style, or styles plural, were made popular because of descriptions of King Solomon's Temple which no currently living person has ever seen.

It's like reading a book and having a conception about the world that you're reading about and then going and seeing the movie and it is completely different than what you would have envisioned and you realize that, oh, so that's probably what the author meant when they described this object or that scene. So the truth of the matter is that there is no one style because we only have textual accounts of what it is supposed to look like and all of these styles fit the description. Who is experienced enough to say which one most closely resembles the original article? Only those who were there and whose Bones have long turned to dust.

Unless you are intentionally being misleading when you make the statement, the most honest thing that any of us can say is "I don't know". That is not a crime and we should stop treating it as if it is. You don't always need to impress somebody or speaking ease to create an illusion of knowledge. That is not wisdom, it is subterfuge. It is very unhealthy that we live in a culture where we feel that if we do not know something, that we should feel ashamed and not only should we feel ashamed but that shame is so great that and fear of somebody seeing us in our shame we do not bring ourselves to ask somebody, remaining and ignorance of our own devices.

You are reaching, for an illusion of knowledge that simply is not there. Just because what has been presented to you at face value doesn't seem like it is the complete picture, (and that is because it's not. Someone who isn't initiatiated into masonry does not have the complete picture of it, yet everything I have said here is on the level and has not been a deception) does not mean that there is some conspiracy or that there is some forgotten history that we no longer understand. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of masonic history that has been lost to time but our model of what Freemasonry teaches is not incomplete. These series come from people who are uninitiated, who are on the outside looking in trying to figure out what we do. To the initiate there is a meaning in an understanding to everything within the craft. We don't have to look to conspiracy theories or promises of some lost mystical knowledge concerning what we do. You were grasping at straws whereas somebody who is involved in the organization is provided the bricks to build the foundation of their understanding.

Again, if there is a lost science as you say, it is the actual operative art that has been replaced by the speculative art. By speculative what we really mean is contemplative or philosophical art. It does not mean that we are speculating and grasping at straws regarding what we do.

I would put the Dan Brown book down, or whatever it is that is leading you to believe that there's some kind of hidden orchestration or that you need to offer promises of some kind of hidden science or two otherwise hint at it to create an aura of legitimacy and your knowledge of the topic.

You started off citing Mackey, you were doing well. I would admonish you to go back and continue reading Mackey, but with the citation that he was a man of his times and much of his and even Pike's materials have been deprecated because we now have better sources than they had at the time.
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Kind of done with the time limits to edit posts.
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You will have noticed that diagonal pavements have both wardens in the West.

What is the implication?

This is incorrect, the style of the tessellated flooring has no bearing on the position of officers. Nor are the words ever in the same direction in the craft Lodge.

Now you may be referring to how in some jurisdictions the senior Warden has two subordinate officers instead of one. For example the state of Michigan has two subordinate officers in the west where in Indiana we only have one. This also is no secret is we do give tours of The lodges and our installations are often public. This was not always the case however.

You might also be referring to degrees put on by a pendant bodies outside the craft Lodge where in the laundry room may be set up to represent a different time and place entirely.
 
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The morality itself isn't really veiled. It the a system of how that morality is inculcated that kept secret and even then, much of it can be understood by an inquisitive mind willing to read our public publications and apply our moral teaching through the good counsel therein. Again, what is secret is our ritual experience, a shared experience which bonds us together as Brothers in-house certain symbols refer to and are used in our contemplation of our moral teaching.

I know it is hard to believe that we are gatekeeping morality or rather moral self-help techniques. However keep in mind that while our system is a system of morality it also serves the purpose of giving men a right of passage in a sense of brotherhood.

Originally our secrets were trade secrets because we were operative Stone guilds. Later they became the secrets of a mystery tradition because again no one wants to join a mystery tradition that has no mystery to it. Later still it was not safe to be a mason. Mini Masons died under Hitler's reign during the second world war. That probably isn't something that you were taught in school but it is true. Although if you are familiar with Maggie you were probably familiar with the forget-me-not.

The truth is today we have our secrets for two reasons: I.) To protect our ritual so the experience isn't ruined or somebody doesn't taint it, as it is very meaningful to us. -and 2.) To see if you are capable of keeping a secret. if I cannot trust you with a handshake or a password how can I trust you to tell you that my marriage is feeling and be secure and knowing that you won't go in blab about it to the rest of the town.

I don't know how it was when you went to school but when I went to school the girls would take a piece of paper and they would write things on this piece of paper and fold it and such a way is to create a fortune telling device. They would not tell the boys how to make it and oftentimes they wouldn't even tell girls outside of their friend group how to do it. Now what is the big deal about such a plaything that you would gate keep it? Why gate keep a party trick so? Did these girls believe that they generally possessed a fortune-telling device? No!, of course not, that is silly. You see it was never about the piece of paper or what was written on it. It was all about the experience of that secret that they shared which brought them together and marks them as different from the rest of their peers. It wasn't nessisarily this elitist thing a feeling better than others that we know children can be cruel. It was about sharing that secret with your friend. That builds trust, and yields fond memories, even if it was a stupid secret. Now I would never say that our secrets in masonry are stupid but a lot of you might. If you truly knew you might think that we were nerds. You might just not see the point.. and there may not be a point to see from the outside. That is the thing about masonry we can't really define it as a noun because it's a mystery it's something that has to be experienced.

It doesn't make it harder to practice because once you become a Mason you are in the club, you have complete transparency. It makes it harder to practice if you haven't been initiated and that's by design, for the aforementioned reasons. I think a lot of people miss that point, because they don't understand how you can be part of something where you are quote unquote left in the dark. I am not in the dark however I have come to full light in Masonry. Yes it's true before you go through the initiation you don't know what you're in for because if you did it would not have the impact on you that an initiation should have on somebody. Once you have gone through those ceremonies however everything is in the light. Nothing is obscured and if you don't like what you see you are free to leave at any time. Oh sure, the candidate doesn't have a clue. They know that each brother is gone through it before them and we're apparently perfectly fine but the fact of the matter is they don't know what's going to happen to them. Nothing bad happens to them but they don't know that, they've never gone through it before. Initiation is intimidating. When you are about to be initiated you may very well be on the edge of your seat. That is also my design. With apprehension and anxiousness comes being in the moment, leading to a more visceral experience. Having the candidate a little unnerved is not a bad thing so long as they're not so worried about the future that they're not paying attention to what is happening to them in the moment.

I think everybody should get initiated into something at some point in their life. I don't care if it's in the Sonic body or not but that kind of writing passage is so very healthy to the psyche and it should be on everybody's bucket list.

As for Mackey's use of the word Science, you are reading far too into it. We have to keep in mind that Mackey lived in the 1800s and was actually a teacher of Pike. The word science was not used the same way then as it is used today. It just wasn't. Nowhere and anything that you cited was he clearly talking about empiricism or the scientific method.

The word science means 'to know' or 'to observe' and thus a science is a method or system by which we can observe and come to know a subject. Today when we use the word science it is implied that we are talking about an empirical method of observation and peer review, and that being empirical this subject is going to be an object of study. Back in the day however the word science was far broader in its application.

When Mackey refers to a science of morality he is talking about a method and a system by which we can observe morality in our lives in this come to know moral virtues.

If however we choose to read into it then my answer to you would be that yes there is a lost empirical science, as we started as a trade guild and most Freemasons today do not know how to craft the architecture that is used to teach the moral lessons of their craft.
Thank you @TheHummingbirdWizard ... great reading, like all of your posts.
 
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Q. Are there any degrees of Masonry higher than the 33°
A. The 33° is an honorary degree conferred by the Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. There are no further degrees in the Scottish Rite, which is the recognized Rite with the highest numbered degree. 33 ⅓ does not exist. If you see references to 34° they are either fraudulent or referencing the rites of Memphis and/or Mizraim which are/is clandestine and not recognized. -and again no degree is higher than the third (except arguably the actual Past Master degree) because no appended body can confer a degree higher than that of the Craft Lodge. An increase in number does not always indicate vertical or linear advancement.

Q. Does the 33rd parallel have anything to do with the 33°?
No

Q. Do you learn magic at the 33°?
A. As already explained, Masonry is not a magical tradition.
 

Konsciencia

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Now, I want to know.

A lot of conspiracy Theorist like David Icke. Have said that you are infiltrated by The Illuminati and do horrendous acts. Such as stealing kids and sexually abusing them, and drinking their bloods. Answer me that if you can.
 

WisdomAddict

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Now, I want to know.

A lot of conspiracy Theorist like David Icke. Have said that you are infiltrated by The Illuminati and do horrendous acts. Such as stealing kids and sexually abusing them, and drinking their bloods. Answer me that if you can.
I kept watching this dude how far he goes with it's false flages,

Yeah it's true, this goes back to the 1700 and begins with British freemasonry
It's also said that the reason their fraternity is men only because they are actually gays, so it's a gay fraternity
No offence but it's self explaintory in itself,

They extract Adrenochrome from children being raped
I have 33° ritual books that goes selling your soul to the Lucifer
Hail the Lucifer
God is man
Man is god
All sort of funny stuff in there
And degrees go far from 33 to maybe 72° I guess or even more maybe its all psyop about their true origin
Because they have also cryptic rites
Called cryptic masonry
You can see it's examples in middle east that their masonic governments are rulled by crypto masons who claim to be Muslims or mullas but they are actually cryptomasons

I guess thats why they send him here to do psyop against so he claims 'a lot of misinformation on this board'
They came out of their caves and informed that they are being exposed here so they send someone to stop it
LoL a 3°
Ok we believe you,
keep going , inform us with your 500000 character posts they look real and informative they means a lot
They means deny deny deny,
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There seems to be a lot of misinformation on this board
No it's not
It's called freedom of speech
If it's false there is no need of you troweling about it

It's all true and you are being exposed not only here but basically everywhere
Goyim knows!
 
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Konsciencia

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I think this HummmingBird dude, knows what's really at stake. They know exactly what they are doing.
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He's hiding something.
 

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I think this HummmingBird dude, knows what's really at stake. They know exactly what they are doing.
Or they act like they know, and think can get out of it
We all know who are they and what they are doing
Posting 5000000 line texts in a reply won't make those claims to be true
 

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Please keep it civil. If you want to ask questions on Masonry then ask him, if you aren't interested in it then leave it be.
 

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It's also said that the reason their fraternity is men only because they are actually gays, so it's a gay fraternity
No offence but it's self explaintory in itself,

They extract Adrenochrome from children being raped
I have 33° ritual books that goes selling your soul to the Lucifer
Can only anticipate the response @TheHummingbirdWizard will have
 

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A couple of questions about Masons. What was the final position of Joseph de Maistre on the Masons? He held advanced grades, but several years ago I recall reading he blamed the French Revolution on Masonic subversion. Whether he regarded this as a perversion of Masonry or its real character was left unclear.

What is the present-day Masonic thinking on William Morgan, kidnapped from jail by Masons in 1826? Allegedly he was going to bring out a book spilling Masonic secrets. After disappearing from jail he was never seen again. (Morgan seems to have been a reprehensible character: a hard-drinking opportunist and all.)
 
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