Freemasonry - swearing on Holy Books

[Feywer]

I am in the process of joining my local small town's Masonic Lodge or Temple. I received a call from one of the Brothers there last night telling me that I would not be able to swear in for the oath using my own Grimore (a totality of all my learned knowledge), or even a copy of "Aradia: The Gospel Of The Witches" (which personally means a lot to me, disregarding the authenticity of it for a moment).

The Brother asked if it was going to be a problem and I told him that I do not believe in the Abramhic faiths and that the Bible would mean nothing to me. He mentioned that it was more of a symbolic gesture towards one's approach to God. Then went on to say there are members who are Muslims and other faiths - but that they were allowed to use books of their respective paths.

I went to bed and it wrung my mind in thought. Symbolically, I understand that even if I don't believe in the Bible, I understand the use of it in a Ritual context. Principally, if other faiths are allowed to use their own Holy Books, why could I not use mine? The old folks at my local lodge are all stodgy Christian types and during the questioning and interview phase they were very curious and simultaneously put-off by the fact that I am very public about my attitudes as an Occultist and Witch (Wicca) and Ceremonial Magician, which I had to explain myself a bit for (something I'm used to).

In concept, these lodges - while they use Christian and Abrahamic symbology (same with the Odd Fellows) - which I have no problem using as vehicles of moral and metaphysical instruction - should they not be accommodating and welcoming to other conceptions and approaches to the Divine, even if they differ a bit from the "run of the mill" Church types that are so normal in America? Are there any other brothers (or Sisters, for the co-ed lodges) that have had a similar experience?

 

[ihateclowns]

Then went on to say there are members who are Muslims and other faiths - but that they were allowed to use books of their respective paths.

The guy needs to work on his sales pitch shooting himself in the foot but I'm curious how muslims devoted to their holy book still be part of some archaic club. But you are right if your right to use your own book is not honoured then you may not be happy being there with whatever going forward.

Though I never have come across one but I don't want to be part of any lodge because not everyone is a cult leader but some surely know how to brainwash the followers.

 

[r4zorenigma]

I have been a mason for a very long time now and I will say this to you respectfully: Freemasonry is not for you.

Grimoires have NO Place in freemasonry.

Nothing is worse than someone who comes to your lodge and tries to do things their way.. Have respect for the organization and what it means to be a mason. Freemasonry is very based on a supreme being.. If you don't think that either of the books available are of the supreme being, you don't belong.

If any lodge allowed you to swear in on a Grimoire, I would really urge you to check and see if they are recognized by the Grand lodge or are clandestine.

 

[Faria]

should they not be accommodating and welcoming to other conceptions and approaches to the Divine

I've seen Muslim, Hindu, and Pagan lodge masters out here on the west coast, although a couple of those people were denied and sent to Prince Hall in other states.

The issue is authority. As you say, it's easy and completely non-offensive to discredit the legitimacy of The Gospel of Witches as a valid religious scripture. Assuming it even represents an actual religion, it's a book you pick off the shelf and decide you like it. Swearing on a book you write yourself is like making a promise to yourself. Religious scripture isn't like that, you don't get to pick it or prune it, the whole concept of it is beyond your control even if 55 out of 66 chapters have objectionable material. The oath has to be made under the auspices of a power completely beyond you, your lodge, or the world, to whose dictates and judgments you are willing to submit even if you find them utterly reprehensible.

 

[Feywer]

I have been a mason for a very long time now and I will say this to you respectfully: Freemasonry is not for you.

Grimoires have NO Place in freemasonry.

Nothing is worse than someone who comes to your lodge and tries to do things their way.. Have respect for the organization and what it means to be a mason. Freemasonry is very based on a supreme being.. If you don't think that either of the books available are of the supreme being, you don't belong.

If any lodge allowed you to swear in on a Grimoire, I would really urge you to check and see if they are recognized by the Grand lodge or are clandestine.

I believe in a Supreme Being. Which is not the issue here. It’s the liturgical texts that I would be swearing upon. I get that symbolically it represents Higher Authority (e.g. “God”) but for me because those tenants are not my own personally, it wouldn’t feel valid of me to take an oath upon them?

Muslim texts are fine, even some Taoist literature. But for us Pagans?

As a Ceremonial Magician there is plenty of material I already follow that is very Judeo-Christian based and it’s fine, I get it. I have no problem with a lot of it because it can be adapted to the framework I personally practice.

The reason I would want to use my own book (or even that of the ‘Gospel’ of the Witches) is because that means I would be taking an oath to the texts which are my whole foundation, and encapsulates my own approach to the divine, which feels more honest to me that the Bible.

I have heard of lodges that allow other books to be placed on the central altar in addition to the Bible. But ultimately as I understand it they all symbolize people taking the oath to their approach to the divine.

If it’s not the texts of the Bible itself and the book is more of a symbolic statement, that’s okay with me. Like I said, tons of nuggets of metaphorical and allegorical wisdom can be gleaned through it and it’s chill. Symbolism is symbolism.

One thing I remember is what Alex Sanders said in a book from 1971, that if he had to put anything on an altar, it would be bare, save for a single red rose (to symbolize Truth). “For even after the rose is gone, the perfume remains.” which I found very profound when I read it years ago.

I’m more just wondering about us Pagan and Witch peoples. I’m interested in masonry, so why couldn’t I be allowed to join in? Maybe I’m just being too nit-picky about it. Just questioning. Maybe it isn’t for us after all… Although I do find it fascinating and feel like it could benefit those who make that quest in earnest.

At least in Odd Fellowship they just make you recite the oath without any books whatsoever~

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:53 PM

I've seen Muslim, Hindu, and Pagan lodge masters out here on the west coast, although a couple of those people were denied and sent to Prince Hall in other states.

The issue is authority. As you say, it's easy and completely non-offensive to discredit the legitimacy of The Gospel of Witches as a valid religious scripture. Assuming it even represents an actual religion, it's a book you pick off the shelf and decide you like it. Swearing on a book you write yourself is like making a promise to yourself. Religious scripture isn't like that, you don't get to pick it or prune it, the whole concept of it is beyond your control even if 55 out of 66 chapters have objectionable material. The oath has to be made under the auspices of a power completely beyond you, your lodge, or the world, to whose dictates and judgments you are willing to submit even if you find them utterly reprehensible.

So it appears then it is just more of symbolic statement than anything else?

 

[r4zorenigma]

I believe in a Supreme Being. Which is not the issue here. It’s the liturgical texts that I would be swearing upon. I get that symbolically it represents Higher Authority (e.g. “God”) but for me because those tenants are not my own personally, it wouldn’t feel valid of me to take an oath upon them?

Muslim texts are fine, even some Taoist literature. But for us Pagans?

As a Ceremonial Magician there is plenty of material I already follow that is very Judeo-Christian based and it’s fine, I get it. I have no problem with a lot of it because it can be adapted to the framework I personally practice.

The reason I would want to use my own book (or even that of the ‘Gospel’ of the Witches) is because that means I would be taking an oath to the texts which are my whole foundation, and encapsulates my own approach to the divine, which feels more honest to me that the Bible.

I have heard of lodges that allow other books to be placed on the central altar in addition to the Bible. But ultimately as I understand it they all symbolize people taking the oath to their approach to the divine.

If it’s not the texts of the Bible itself and the book is more of a symbolic statement, that’s okay with me. Like I said, tons of nuggets of metaphorical and allegorical wisdom can be gleaned through it and it’s chill. Symbolism is symbolism.

One thing I remember is what Alex Sanders said in a book from 1971, that if he had to put anything on an altar, it would be bare, save for a single red rose (to symbolize Truth). “For even after the rose is gone, the perfume remains.” which I found very profound when I read it years ago.

I’m more just wondering about us Pagan and Witch peoples. I’m interested in masonry, so why couldn’t I be allowed to join in? Maybe I’m just being too nit-picky about it. Just questioning. Maybe it isn’t for us after all… Although I do find it fascinating and feel like it could benefit those who make that quest in earnest.

At least in Odd Fellowship they just make you recite the oath without any books whatsoever~

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:53 PM

So it appears then it is just more of symbolic statement than anything else?

Hello, I do resonate with your sentiments and statements but the simple idea behind it is-- if you do infact believe in a Supreme being, its a bit of an understanding that those books in question all allude to the worship of or acknowledgement of that Supreme being more certainly than others. There is no telling that the books you brought up allude to the acknowledgement and worship of that same Supreme being. Some lodges do allow other books, ie: but it's not as common as the 3 main Abrahamic faith books.

The bigger issue is that coming to the lodge and proposing being sworn in on the books you are mentioning might make people believe you are joining freemasonry for occult knowledge, which is not what freemasonry is necessarily about. While esotericism is studied individually by some masons, Freemasonry itself is just a system of symbolism and allegory related to being a better person. There are appending bodies to freemasonry that can feel a bit more mystical but-- the core of what freemasonry is has nothing to do with occult or mysticism.. and For most lodges that are recognized by the Grand Lodge and not a clandestine operation, it really bothers masons to know someone is joining for the wrong reasons.

I hope this helps.

 

[Faria]

I believe in a Supreme Being. Which is not the issue here. It’s the liturgical texts that I would be swearing upon. I get that symbolically it represents Higher Authority (e.g. “God”) but for me because those tenants are not my own personally, it wouldn’t feel valid of me to take an oath upon them?
........
So it appears then it is just more of symbolic statement than anything else?

There are a few issues at work.

1. It might be off-putting to your lodge members. A supermajority of Masons are Christians, and a very large number of those view any kind of witchcraft, occultism, and grimoires as antithetical to Masonry. Not just that they are different or heretical, but there is a prevailing notion that those are for bad people to do bad things, so it's like asking to make meth in chemistry class. We here realize that's not the case, but the lodge guys might not.

2. And that leads to them seeing this as you being a punk who wants to force them to accept something they've been taught to think of as The Worst Evil Imaginable on some kind of protocol technicality. Most lodges are looking for people who will join and to some extent conform, and generally hate it when people want to try and make things operate in a different way.

Both of those issues are something you could probably resolve with proper conversations. Then there's

3. Forgive me, please, but I have a very very hard time taking any kind of paganism seriously as a religion for the simple fact that you are in control over it. You pick your gods and which rituals and divine laws you follow, it's very much you-centered. If you make an oath to Diana or Aradia or Odin or whoever, in 40 years you might decide "You know, fuck this Wicca thing," and go back to whatever your grandma believed. But people who believe in the Bible will spend their entire lives feeling guilty over stealing a candy bar when they were 12. If you don't genuinely feel that the higher power to whom you swear your oath will hold you accountable even if nobody else in the world will, then it's not a valid oath. The lodge needs to make sure that your oath represents a submission to a power beyond all other powers, and it's hard to see sincerity when a person's religion is being drawn from an academic critical edition of a zine about witches.

 

[Firetree]

It depends on what lodge, some are more understanding and liberal than others ... some even use a 'white book' (blank or otherwise ) - which is sometimes used to accommodate diverse philosophical or non-dogmatic beliefs. You might get that in France , but in some places they might be 'stricter' and require a text from a 'recognized' religion . ( Meaning , a religion they recognize ) .

Since you wrote this ; '' As a Ceremonial Magician there is plenty of material I already follow that is very Judeo-Christian based and it’s fine, I get it. I have no problem with a lot of it because it can be adapted to the framework I personally practice. ''

Why not just include the Bible as the VSL under this understanding . To go though the degrees you will have to be 'flexible' on this as the whole thing is based on a Jewish fiction anyway ( the first temple and King Solomon ) .... but seen as an 'allegory'... see the swearing as an allegory .

or to make a better argument (as a ritual magician ) use the Corpus Hermeticum .... it worked as the VSL to get protection from Islam .

But consider ; do you want to 'go in' under a controversial and 'insistent' person carrying preconceived ideas

or do you want to 'empty your glass' first and learn something , perhaps new to you and thus, not 'rocking the boat' so much ?

Also consider , you might be comfortable in the 'more magical' (in some cases ) Red Lodges (in some places ) but you have to go through the Blue one to get there .