I feel that the middle pillar is useless

[Mashreqi]

What is your opinion about the middle pillar
When I do it I don't feel any change
What replacement ritual do you suggest

 

[Yazata]

Try opening your planetary centers (chakras etc) in the Kabalistic Cross during LBRP as you rise and pass through the planetary "layers" that surround Earth: first the Lunar / Yesod until all are in their respective zone) then give it another go.
Or maybe this if you want to use it as a cleansing / banishing:

https://wizardforums.com/threads/enochian-expulsion.11071/

 

[St. Stephen]

What is your opinion about the middle pillar
When I do it I don't feel any change
What replacement ritual do you suggest

Well how many times have you actually done it?

 

[Feywer]

When I was much more "energetically spry" and doing intense daily practices I would perform the MP ritual often. I found it worked so well, in fact, that it made things almost too energetic and charged. In my experience, it worked well and I found it useful.

 

[Rahu]

What is your opinion about the middle pillar
When I do it I don't feel any change
What replacement ritual do you suggest

Hi, how long have you been practicing the MP? And how do you practice it, is it in a sequence of exercises or just on its own. How is your focus, and how many time do you vibrate the godnames? All these elements will influence the results you get.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I have performed the MP many, many times. I even combined it with Neo-Reichian practices, which was Regardie's secret sauce. While I would feel an abundance of energy, I eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't the transformative practice it was advertised to be. What iis actually occuring when it is performed is the bringing in of collectivist energies. Between that and tapping one's Inner Self without the mediation (really, interference) of these collective, egregoric energies there is no comparison whatsoever. Occultists are lemmings with no discernment, so they are oblivious to this distinction.

 

[Aeternus]

I have performed the MP many, many times. I even combined it with Neo-Reichian practices, which was Regardie's secret sauce. While I would feel an abundance of energy, I eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't the transformative practice it was advertised to be. What iis actually occuring when it is performed is the bringing in of collectivist energies. Between that and tapping one's Inner Self without the mediation (really, interference) of these collective, egregoric energies there is no comparison whatsoever. Occultists are lemmings with no discernment, so they are oblivious to this distinction.

You are entitled to your own opinion but, LBRP is really transformative. I have done it, quite often and it is really useful.

By the way, occultists are not "lemmings with no discernment". Rather, those "lemmings with no discernment" will tell you: There is always the illusion of having the absolute truth.

 

[Beyond Everything]

You are entitled to your own opinion but, LBRP is really transformative.

The topic was the middle pillar. That said, if we examine Mathers- the person who created the LBRP- we see a mess that toiled in lifelong poverty and was so psychologically askew he couldn't even consumate his marriage. The pathetic internecine squabbles of the Golden Dawn- from the original temple to the factional 'wars' of the 90s should also be examined.

I'm sure the LBRP changed you. However higher 'transformation' in an esoteric sense is not forthcoming or in evidence with these practices. 10,000s or more of dutiful practitioners over the years of these rituals and how many achieved Liberation?

 

[Firetree]

You are entitled to your own opinion but, LBRP is really transformative. I have done it, quite often and it is really useful.

By the way, occultists are not "lemmings with no discernment". Rather, those "lemmings with no discernment" will tell you: There is always the illusion of having the absolute truth.

I agree . I found it helpful . Also , its not clear what 'beyond everything' claims was what the ' practice was advertised to be '.

Its rather telling if someone labels every person in wide collective as the same .

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:04 PM

The topic was the middle pillar. That said, if we examine Mathers- the person who created the LBRP- we see a mess that toiled in lifelong poverty and was so psychologically askew he couldn't even consumate his marriage. The pathetic internecine squabbles of the Golden Dawn- from the original temple to the factional 'wars' of the 90s should also be examined.

'ad hominem ' - you often resort to that ; attempting to discredit a person instead of focusing on the content of their work and the use of it and the opinion of it of the many that tried it.

I'm sure the LBRP changed you. However higher 'transformation' in an esoteric sense is not forthcoming or in evidence with these practices.

So now you admit it can change someone ... but not enough . Not just transformation but 'higher transformation' - undefined .

10,000s or more of dutiful practitioners over the years of these rituals and how many achieved Liberation?

How did you get the idea that you could 'attain liberation' from either the MP or LRP rituals ? And what a strange question ; how would anyone know the answer to that ? I suppose you think it would count if someone made a youtube declaring it so Or do you want the Dali lama to declare ; '' Oh yeah, I also did Middle Pillar meditation '' and then levitate off into the 'beyond' - maybe he will see you up there .... above and beyond him ?

 

[Beyond Everything]

I


'ad hominem ' - you often resort to that ; attempting to discredit a person instead of focusing on the content of their work and the use of it and the opinion of it of the many that tried it.

That's like saying the health condition of a person promoting a particular diet is of no relevance to assessing said diet. That sounds like wilful blindness.

So now you admit it can change someone ... but not enough . Not just transformation but 'higher transformation' - undefined .

I've repeatedly defined it. The approach towards transmutation into a higher subtle body. If you're oblivious to this -as you manifestly are- that is not my problem.

The problem is people have no inner initiative, no creativity, no higher intuition, no connection to their Inner Self. They just ape what these books tell them to do. They never inquire into the source of these things nor do they take a critical look at the energies they are involving themselves with.

You want to say it's completely irrelevant to look at the very orders that utilized these practices the most thoroughly. Or that Regardie's final assessment of his path is that he'd have rathered not been involved in magic at all. lol The very person all of you are dutifully aping in performing these rites in the end didn't think it was worthwhile. Just waving that away sounds like cultish behavior, in fact.

 

[Faria]

What is your opinion about the middle pillar
When I do it I don't feel any change
What replacement ritual do you suggest

There are two massive problems that I usually see in about 95% of Golden Dawn style practitioners. Both flaws are fatal to your magical work. Both are easily resolved.

1. They don't do it. The GD originally prescribed their pentagram rituals to be done upon waking and before sleep, every day. Instead of "go into an earthy place and focus all your attention on earth-related things," you draw The Pentagram of Earth and imagine all of those things coming and going. The pentagram becomes your key to all the rest of those things as you do the ritual repeatedly over time. Instead of waiting for your picked planet to be in exaltation, of waiting to be in the right planetary-saturated environment, you have a simple hexagram drawing. None of that works unless you drill it into yourself like a multiplication table, for years and years. It's likely that almost nobody in the original Golden Dawn ever did that, and I know for certain almost nobody since then does that. If you do, you are going to be the one guy out of many many people who has the skills, and everyone will say "it's not effective!" or "it's not necessary!" because they don't have the will to actually do the thing.

2. Hebrew. When I hear people say, "collective, egregoric energies," I hear them actually saying "I don't like all the Bible stuff." The real issue is that it connects to culture in some way they find distasteful, and more than 3/4ths of the time it's because they're gay and they believe the entire God subject is tainted by gay-haters. Just forget about all of that. Don't try to reformat the rituals to match something you want to believe, or which matches what you think they ought to be. In short time, you'll find some other part that needs revision, and six weeks out you're doing nothing but have some cool ritual scripts. Do the thing the way the thing is supposed to be done, or don't do it.

The Middle Pillar exercise is Regardie's invention. It's very likely that even he didn't really use it. Depending on how you look at them, ANY person from modern occultist history can be seen as a demigod or a worthless shithead, so ignore that and focus on the work you want to do yourself.

 

[Beyond Everything]

The real issue is that it connects to culture in some way they find distasteful, and more than 3/4ths of the time it's because they're gay and they believe the entire God subject is tainted by gay-haters.

lol The real issue is you are religiously infected and lack discernment, so you fallaciously reduce esoteric matters to something like this.

Do the thing the way the thing is supposed to be done, or don't do it.

If no one ever did it as you say it was supposed to be done, how can you state that is how it should be performed? You haven't done so, how can you speak of something as being effective you never tried yourself?

The Middle Pillar exercise is Regardie's invention.

No, it was not solely his invention. However, he did create the version most people know and use

It's very likely that even he didn't really use it.

He did use it. He'd even perform it together with a few select disciples . Basically you don't know wth you're talking about.

 

[ewiz]

Depending on how you look at them, ANY person from modern occultist history can be seen as a demigod or a worthless shithead, so ignore that and focus on the work you want to do yourself.

1000%^

I didn't find the middle pillar to be very useful as a regular practice. When I did it regularly, I didn't really feel good. What Feywer said about being too energetic and charged is probably how I would have described it. The only version of it that I did stick to using over the years is the highly simplified version from NAP, as a part of that ritual process. It is extremely effective as a part of that ritual and similar.

That's like saying the health condition of a person promoting a particular diet is of no relevance to assessing said diet. That sounds like wilful blindness.


I've repeatedly defined it. The approach towards transmutation into a higher subtle body. If you're oblivious to this -as you manifestly are- that is not my problem.

The problem is people have no inner initiative, no creativity, no higher intuition, no connection to their Inner Self. They just ape what these books tell them to do. They never inquire into the source of these things nor do they take a critical look at the energies they are involving themselves with.

You want to say it's completely irrelevant to look at the very orders that utilized these practices the most thoroughly. Or that Regardie's final assessment of his path is that he'd have rathered not been involved in magic at all. lol The very person all of you are dutifully aping in performing these rites in the end didn't think it was worthwhile. Just waving that away sounds like cultish behavior, in fact.

How would you define "transmutation into a higher subtle body"? And in what way do the "collective, egregoric energies" you believe are involved differ from the energies of the "Inner Self" in this process? How do you profess to know what other people are doing based solely on your own UPG?

 

[Beyond Everything]

How would you define "transmutation into a higher subtle body"

It's an occult site, genius. These things can't be defined scientifically. All I can do is use a finger to point to experiences and the latent possibilities of what humans can achieve. The vast majority of posts here could be questioned in the same way.

How do you profess to know what other people are doing based solely on your own UPG?

Pointing out Regardie said he wouldn't have been involved in magic if he could do it all over again is not UPG. Referencing the juvenile conflicts within the original and neo-gd groups is not a matter of personal revelation.

 

[ewiz]

It's an occult site, genius. These things can't be defined scientifically. All I can do is use a finger to point to experiences and the latent possibilities of what humans can achieve. The vast majority of posts here could be questioned in the same way.


Pointing out Regardie said he wouldn't have been involved in magic if he could do it all over again is not UPG. Referencing the juvenile conflicts within the original and neo-gd groups is not a matter of personal revelation.

This has nothing to do with my questions. The implication is what does the higher subtle body mean TO YOU?

And I didn't ask or care about Regardie. I asked about your UPG about egregoric collectivist energies and how they compare to inner self energies, and why you think your experience dictates everyone elses experience.

 

[Faria]

lol The real issue is you are religiously infected and lack discernment, so you fallaciously reduce esoteric matters to something like this.

You don't know me at all. "Basically you don't know what you're talking about."

Are you "straight?" Yes or no answer.

If no one ever did it as you say it was supposed to be done, how can you state that is how it should be performed?

Did I say nobody ever? I said 95%.

You haven't done so, how can you speak of something as being effective you never tried yourself?

I spent many years following Golden Dawn rituals, and to some extent still do.
"Basically you don't know what you're talking about."

No, it was not solely his invention. However, he did create the version most people know and use

Do you have any examples of an earlier version from before 1938?

He did use it. He'd even perform it together with a few select disciples . Basically you don't know wth you're talking about.

This is your assessment. Mine differs. I have examined Regardie, his writings and his life, and my opinion is that he was nowhere near as "into it" as he would like us to believe. I regard most of his work as meaningless psychobabble and consider him little more than a cult leader. He did what was required to make a good showing for his followers. His written work is a valuable archive of ideas, but his commitment appears to be focused on propagation of those ideas rather than doing the rituals himself as recommended.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Are you "straight?" Yes or no answer.

In fact I am heterosexual. Now you can tell me how you derived your 3/4 figure. Oh, that's right, you just pulled it out of your ass.. Why are you on the lookout for homosexuals? Is it something that interests you?

Did I say nobody ever? I said 95%.

Where did that figure come from. If Mathers is one of them, well, I covered his problems already. Name the others?

I spent many years following Golden Dawn rituals, and to some extent still do.
"Basically you don't know what you're talking about."

And you said you're 'closer to poverty' in a post I created about money. Repeating Mathers. I see how effective this all is.

This is your assessment.

No, this isn't my 'assessment'. It is what people who worked with him say.

I have examined Regardie, his writings and his life, and my opinion is that he was nowhere near as "into it" as he would like us to believe.

The people who actually worked with him don't affirm with your fiction here. Regardie was in fact deeply 'into it' as the passion of his life. Although at the end he regretted it, as I already pointed out.

I regard most of his work as meaningless psychobabble and consider him little more than a cult leader. He did what was required to make a good showing for his followers. His written work is a valuable archive of ideas, but his commitment appears to be focused on propagation of those ideas rather than doing the rituals himself as recommended.

So you went to London and looked at the original GD papers to practice what was in them? Or, you did the rituals from the Stella Matutina as everyone else did that Regardie published? Anyway, you created a fantasy world where Regardie wasn't deeply enmeshed in the practices he devoted his life to lol

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:07 PM

and why you think your experience dictates everyone elses experience.

I was unaware that typing some words on a screen 'dictates' everyone else's experience. If it disturbs your conventional occult sensibility, you can just disregard it. A wiser move would be to deeply think about what I'm saying and start trying to stimulate your higher intuition and really examining conventional occult energies. And, most important of all, wake up.

 

[Aeternus]

In fact I am heterosexual. Now you can tell me how you derived your 3/4 figure. Oh, that's right, you just pulled it out of your ass.. Why are you on the lookout for homosexuals? Is it something that interests you?



Where did that figure come from. If Mathers is one of them, well, I covered his problems already. Name the others?



And you said you're 'closer to poverty' in a post I created about money. Repeating Mathers. I see how effective this all is.


No, this isn't my 'assessment'. It is what people who worked with him say.


The people who actually worked with him don't affirm with your fiction here. Regardie was in fact deeply 'into it' as the passion of his life. Although at the end he regretted it, as I already pointed out.


So you went to London and looked at the original GD papers to practice what was in them? Or, you did the rituals from the Stella Matutina as everyone else did that Regardie published? Anyway, you created a fantasy world where Regardie wasn't deeply enmeshed in the practices he devoted his life to lol

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:07 PM

I was unaware that typing some words on a screen 'dictates' everyone else's experience. If it disturbs your conventional occult sensibility, you can just disregard it. A wiser move would be to deeply think about what I'm saying and start trying to stimulate your higher intuition and really examining conventional occult energies. And, most important of all, wake up.

I see that you have a huge sense of self-entitlement that stems from quite the arrogant attitude. It is detrimental both to you and the community.

Your words carry the value of opinion and, by miracle, UPG. I stated my experience about the LBRP and will continue to state it: It really helped me and as a person who struggles with energy drainage from time to time (both spiritual and non-spiritual causes alike), it is something that has helped me a lot in restoring my energy, upgrading my spiritual abilities (chakras being cleaned and activated means I can see auras better and more profoundly than ever).

You are entitled to your opinion, once again, but please note that there can always be a fine line between having an opinion and belittling others due to arrogance and self-entitlement.

I have seen your claims about Israel Regardie as well. I want to state this very clearly: No occult practicioner is perfect! One perfects themselves in time, on the path they desire to pursue, facing spiritual and non-spiritual challenges as well as it is part of the process into becoming someone better spiritually speaking. It is not Regardie who was poor, but also Eliphas Levi. He was the son of a shoemaker and he had to obviate extreme poverty by working as a tutor in Paris. Eliphas Levi became one of the most respectable figures in the occult world, his books like "Transcendental Magic" are widely known and of high-quality.

So, occult practitioners don't have to wear the crowns and capes and be kings over people. In fact, they are the kings alongside the best Lord, the Universe Itself, or kings of their own destiny (if they are LHP), wearing the crown and cape of their choices, good and bad, that will lead them to the desired evolution.

 

[Faria]

In fact I am heterosexual. Now you can tell me how you derived your 3/4 figure. Oh, that's right, you just pulled it out of your ass.. Why are you on the lookout for homosexuals? Is it something that interests you?

So then what's your beef with the Lord? Or is it just something against Jews? Why do Hebrew God-names bug you?

Most of the time I find people coming up with pretentious pseudo-intellectual arguments against Hebrew God-names, it boils down to them being butt-hurt over being ostracized by religious fanatics. The most common cause of that, really every one that I've seen who has such a big hang-up, was because they are gay.

Where did that figure come from. If Mathers is one of them, well, I covered his problems already. Name the others?

Mathers had been dead for 20 years when the Middle Pillar was published.

I've known tons of occultists. Of that number, quite a few followed something along the Golden Dawn lines. Of those, very few actually did any of the work. Of those, very few did the work without replacing the names with something less Biblical, and then again fewer still kept at it with any resilience. That is how the number was determined.

And you said you're 'closer to poverty' in a post I created about money. Repeating Mathers. I see how effective this all is.

I'm not living my life to make a buck, for sure. It's not my priority.

The people who actually worked with him don't affirm with your fiction here. Regardie was in fact deeply 'into it' as the passion of his life. Although at the end he regretted it, as I already pointed out.

And again, I do not believe that he was doing the rituals. At least not in the way he was prescribing them, with regularity etc. He might have had a passion for being in his position, and of course his associates will speak well for him, but that is just a society game.

So you went to London and looked at the original GD papers to practice what was in them?

The ones in the masonic museum? Yes. The ones that have been digitally represented online? Yes those too. Do you have a reference for the Middle Pillar exercise among them, or is it just the Portal materials?

Or, you did the rituals from the Stella Matutina as everyone else did that Regardie published?

Again... do you have a copy of the Middle Pillar Exercise from prior to 1938?

Anyway, you created a fantasy world where Regardie wasn't deeply enmeshed in the practices he devoted his life to lol

The fantasy world is the one in which Regardie was actively following the rituals and attempting to become a great Adept. The real world is the one in which Regardie learned to become a voice of authority among people trying to legitimize themselves by participating in his cult. If he had spent his life actually doing the work, rather than trying to explain, organize, and transmit that work, he might have been a great magician. I stand by my assessment of him, being familiar with his work, his life, and much else written about him.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I have seen your claims about Israel Regardie as well. I want to state this very clearly: No occult practicioner is perfect! One perfects themselves in time, on the path they desire to pursue, facing spiritual and non-spiritual challenges as well as it is part of the process into becoming someone better spiritually speaking. It is not Regardie who was poor, but also Eliphas Levi. He was the son of a shoemaker and he had to obviate extreme poverty by working as a tutor in Paris. Eliphas Levi became one of the most respectable figures in the occult world, his books like "Transcendental Magic" are widely known and of high-quality.

I didn't state Regardie was poor. He was not, he had a thriving therapy practice. I stated Mathers was poor, which he was.

Levi's practice of magic was in fact limited. He was more a theoretician than anything else.

I see that you have a huge sense of self-entitlement that stems from quite the arrogant attitude. It is detrimental both to you and the community.

I haven't made any demands of anyone here for special treatment. Perhaps you don't know what 'self-entitlement' means.

So, occult practitioners don't have to wear the crowns and capes and be kings over people. In fact, they are the kings alongside the best Lord, the Universe Itself, or kings of their own destiny (if they are LHP), wearing the crown and cape of their choices, good and bad, that will lead them to the desired evolution.

This is empty babble.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:48 PM

So then what's your beef with the Lord?

lol what kind of idiotic question is this? There is no 'lord', that's primitive superstition for people manipulated by conditioning and egregores.

Mathers had been dead for 20 years when the Middle Pillar was published.

Where did I say otherwise? Regardie stated the origin of the Middle Pillar was with Felkin. Regardie added the vocalization of godnames and the circulation of light (inspired by the Secret of the Golden Flower, although a really paltry imitation)

And again, I do not believe that he was doing the rituals.

Why should anyone care about your belief when people who knew him say the exact opposite?

The fantasy world is the one in which Regardie was actively following the rituals and attempting to become a great Adept. The real world is the one in which Regardie learned to become a voice of authority among people trying to legitimize themselves by participating in his cult.

You're just making shit up. He refused to teach most of the people who came to learn magic from him, he was extremely selective. His money came from his successful therapy practice, not from fees paid by cultists. You keep stating he didnt practice the rituals, when every bit of information out there (and communicated to me personally) by people who knew him says the opposite.

If he had spent his life actually doing the work, rather than trying to explain, organize, and transmit that work, he might have been a great magician.

lol You're a great magician? Your intuition is so shitty you keep insisting people here are things they aren't. You've done this multiple times with me.