I feel that the middle pillar is useless

[Mashreqi]

What is your opinion about the middle pillar
When I do it I don't feel any change
What replacement ritual do you suggest

 

[Faria]

Well, you didn't understand about the transmutation into a higher subtle body, which is the apex of esoteric development.

Clarify the highlighted terms.

Why is "transmute" a better word than "change?"
"Higher" than what? Where is the scale to be found, to determine higher and lower?
What is a "subtle body?" Do you mean some aspect of the mind, or a completely theoretical imaginary body?
By apex, this would mean the highest point possible, so besides Jesus Christ (in Matthew 17, Mark 7, Luke 9) who has achieved this?

In short, I'm asking you to rephrase this exact sentence so that it could be read and understood by a 5th grader, to demonstrate that you understand what you're saying and not just in love with fancy words.

 

[Firetree]

According to what standard?

A very general and well understood standard . Do I have to educate you on it and the why of it ?

You do realize any claim of any sort about occult effects can be said to lack sufficient evidence? If you combed through your posts you would find cases where you make various claims that do not have evidentiary backing to the standard you are attempting to apply to the one case you don't like. That would be its own fallacy of special pleading.

What are you talking about ? ANY thing I write on an internet forum doesnt have sufficent evidence of proof . How stupid ! For all you know I might present as a beutiful young witch ... yet I am actually a a fat underwear clad guy sitting in his apartment in Russia copying and posting someone's blog .

You've surely made claims here that involve occult forces. Why don't you hold yourself to the same standard? lol You're full of shit, in other words.

I can make any claims I want and I up for reasonably debating them with anyone .... IF they are capable . If someone chooses not to believe random poster firetree on the internet so what ? I dont need to carry on like you do when you are questioned . You just cant hold up your own internet forum discussions .

The problem is that the lemmings of the occult world can't assimilate the fact that they've wasted years soaking in egregoric energies and not truly developing themselves.

Maybe you mix with the wrong crowd ... or more likely , only see through 'certain tinted colored glasses ' .

I already answered this to another poster. If I said something about 'chakras', you wouldn't ask me to define the term.

Now you are claiming to be psychic as well ? I may well ask YOU that ... or I might just snuff and ignore it . You have not got a clue what I think and know about chakras . In 50 years of studying anthropology, from a religious and spiritual focus , I am well familiar with the many different ideas systems about them and the numbers of them and things related and associated with them .

yet here you are declaring you think you know my mindset here and predict my actions .

The higher subtle body has plenty of references in esoteric tradition. If you're too dim to grasp this, it is not my problem.

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:28 AM

The same with this idea . I know well about it in the various traditions ; from the modern new age bullshit collated versions through to some indigenous Australian concepts ; one of (if not THE ) oldest still practiced os such systems in the world .

But all you just did then was again to give us the term and then say its referenced in esoteric traditions . You cant get off your own smarmy say so answers long enough to explain something in your own words and what it speficially means TO YOU >

Look, if you want to be in denial about what Mark Stavish wrote, that's up to you.

Listen up tosser ... I just agreed THAT IS WHAT HE WROTE .... you claimed that Regardie claimed that and said it ... now you are miserably failing to cough up the proof , you again resorty to deflection via insults .

Anyone who can comprehend basic English can read it and decide for themselves, Pg 11

WE have already decided ... by reading volumes of what Regardie SAID HIMSELF !

 

[Soror Epihania]

The problem is that the lemmings of the occult world can't assimilate the fact that they've wasted years soaking in egregoric energies and not truly developing themselves.

And we're the lemmings? Please, get over yourself and clarify what you're talking about like @Faria and multiple other posters are asking you to.

 

[Firetree]

Is the English on pg 11 not comprehensible to you? I can't help you.



It is extremely foolish to believe that these energies are not a part and parcel of the 'outward cultural form'. There is no separation, they are all intermingled egregoric energies.

That only comes from a narrow field of observation ; in these and many other practices , the internals ( that is the internal dynamic mechanisms ) are similar cross culturally . Why ? Because we are all human with 10s of 1000s of years of similar development and this recent era is just a flash in the pan when one looks at modern or recent cultural developments .

I am not offering this up to you as that would be point less , but others here can read it as it demonstartes this point .

In conversations with an initiated culturally knowledgeable elder , senior 'Uncle' (respect title ) , sacred site guardian and kadaicha, indigenous man we discussed (in principle ) our intitations and looking at the internals ( and removing the cultural clothing ) we were BOTH amazed at the similarities of ritual, process , symbology and effects .

 

[Beyond Everything]

, I'm asking you to rephrase this exact sentence so that it could be read and understood by a 5th grader,

Yes, we know esoteric mysteries ought to be comprehended by 5th graders.

A very general and well understood standard . Do I have to educate you on it and the why of it ?


What are you talking about ? ANY thing I write on an internet forum doesnt have sufficent evidence of proof . How stupid ! For all you know I might present as a beutiful young witch ... yet I am actually a a fat underwear clad guy sitting in his apartment in Russia copying and posting someone's blog .

Well, once again you didn't understand, while proving my point. Maybe you should ask AI to compose your responses.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:06 AM

From page 10 (not 11) of Israel Regardie & The Philosopher's Stone by Lisewski:
"I bring up Santee because he ran in many of the same circles as Regardie. Crowley, and Frater Albertus and was a contemporary of theirs and it is said that he met the first two men when in London . Yet like Albertus at the end of his days, when the lodge he had built and put so much energy into was going to meet its ultimate test of being able to survive without its founder, he uttered similar thoughts that we find Regardie stating here . If he had to do it all over again. Santee said he would forget magic and focus only on making money. As a physician Santee had a comfortable life, but it is also clear, that for all his occult skill and talent, in the end. he believed that the results did not justify the time and energy he put into it."

This is a quote which Stavish is attributing to Santee, not to Regardie. And having combed through Regardie's work I don't find anything like this at all. Be my guest and try to find it before repeating this nonsense any further. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

He uttered similar thoughts that we find Regardie stating here.

He's saying Regardie expressed similiar thoughts to what Santee said. There is no other possible meaning to that sentence.

 

[Faria]

Yes, we know esoteric mysteries ought to be comprehended by 5th graders.

They should be communicable to a 5th grader, certainly. I am not asking you to explain your entire magical philosophy. I am asking whether or not you are capable of rendering this jargon-heavy sentence into something a person could grasp without words like "transmutation" and "higher subtle body."

I don't believe in a subtle body, and I very much doubt you have a solid notion of what this transmutation business is about. Sounds cool, but explain it like you're at a Waffle House and everybody's hung over. If you can't, you probably don't know what you're saying.

 

[ewiz]

Yes, we know esoteric mysteries ought to be comprehended by 5th graders.


Well, once again you didn't understand, while proving my point. Maybe you should ask AI to compose your responses.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:06 AM

He uttered similar thoughts that we find Regardie stating here.

He's saying Regardie expressed similiar thoughts to what Santee said. There is no other possible meaning to that sentence.

Great, it's now time to find what that something similar is and show the class. This is YOUR argument. You've been repeating it for years. You should have more to go on than just this one thing, or were you unable to read the actual book?

 

[Beyond Everything]

I don't believe in a subtle body,

So you claim to be well-versed in the Golden Dawn, and yet you have never had an OBE?

 

[Firetree]

Yes, we know esoteric mysteries ought to be comprehended by 5th graders.

after all these challengers THIS ^ is what you answer with ???

Well, once again you didn't understand, while proving my point. Maybe you should ask AI to compose your responses.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:06 AM

He uttered similar thoughts that we find Regardie stating here.

He's saying Regardie expressed similiar thoughts to what Santee said. There is no other possible meaning to that sentence.

You know that is not what we are talking about .... its your claim of '' Regardie's final assessment of his path is that he'd have rathered not been involved in magic at all. lol ''

But you will NOT be able to admit your mistake .

 

[Faria]

So you claim to be well-versed in the Golden Dawn, and yet you have never had an OBE?

Probably not the thread for it...
I do not believe that OBE have anything to do with souls, astral bodies, subtle bodies, spirit bodies, or anything remotely like that.

It is apparent that you are wedded to those specific terms and besides using them, you are unable to articulate the same thoughts without them. Have fun with that.

 

[Firetree]

So you claim to be well-versed in the Golden Dawn, and yet you have never had an OBE?

Nope . Read it carefully, what he said . You are putting your own words in his mouth .

 

[Beyond Everything]

But you will NOT be able to admit your mistake .

What mistake? Some of you are disliking what the book written by Regardie's close associate said. Not my problem.

 

[Firetree]

Probably not the thread for it...
I do not believe that OBE have anything to do with souls, astral bodies, subtle bodies, spirit bodies, or anything remotely like that.

Exactly . you could have had a similar expereince and attributed to things beyond 'above all's' somprehensive universe .

he just cant get that !

 

[Beyond Everything]

I do not believe that OBE have anything to do with souls, astral bodies, subtle bodies, spirit bodies, or anything remotely like that.

So, as I said- you lack experience. Unsurprising.

 

[Firetree]

What mistake? Some of you are disliking what the book written by Regardie's close associate said. Not my problem.

Wrong , What we are disliking is you and your dishonest approach here . It would not be so bad if it wasn't so transparently obvious ! Its just a series of complex ego tactics that many of us are ............ beyond .

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:22 AM

What mistake? Some of you are disliking what the book written by Regardie's close associate said. Not my problem.

The problem here is about what YOU claimed . Not what someone else claimed .

You never said '' ...... claims Regardie felt '' . And that is a 'tactic device' to try and worm your way out of being caught out ... which is not working at all .

It might be working for you ... but to the outsider its becoming sad / laughable ..... cant decide yet .

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:24 AM

So, as I said- you lack experience. Unsurprising.

again ... He answers with a put down and a masked elevation of himself . While all the unanswered issues build up .

 

[Faria]

So, as I said- you lack experience. Unsurprising.

Let me rerphrase..... despite having several Out of Body Experiences - notably after being in a car accident and getting a major head injury - I see absolutely no reason to assert the existence of a body, or anything like a body, through which these events take place.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Wrong , What we are disliking is you

lol get a grip

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:26 AM

notably after being in a car accident and getting a major head injury

Well, I'm sorry for your accident, but this is not exactly practicing an esoteric discipline. Id say you are unexperienced.

 

[Faria]

Well, I'm sorry for your accident, but this is not exactly practicing an esoteric discipline. Id say you are unexperienced.

That was more than 30 years ago. Do I need to list every OBE individually, to distinguish between which ones were produced through which methods? As I said, this is not the thread for it. But we can make that thread if you like.

 

[Beyond Everything]

That was more than 30 years ago. Do I need to list every OBE individually, to distinguish between which ones were produced through which methods? As I said, this is not the thread for it. But we can make that thread if you like.

I mean you said 'several'. So that is approximately 6 at most. So it's not 'never', but it's sure close to it.

Whereas I couldn't even begin to count the number I have had starting from early childhood. But I'm sure you know more about it.

 

[Firetree]

lol get a grip

Now you are cutting off sentences in a raply - a self edit , so you can answer in your 'snazzy' way with an insult instead of an answer .

This is getting circular and boring