My higher self is a DEMON?!?

[Xenophon]

You suggested I was nuts, why should I accept your answer?

If people say I'm nuts, I might pause 'n ponder. Not necessarily accept their diagnosis. But consider it a bit.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

My proof is my experience. And I made up my mind after people on here suggested I was insane when I never meant that part.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Also, darkest knight confirmed spirit children are a thing, so there's proof:

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Also, this website gives me MAJOR Reddit vibes. Are most of the users on here Redditors? Just asking

I'm not a Redditor. So what's a major Reddit vibe? I'd say the vibe here is healthily sceptical of posters' claims.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Oh no, some random dude agrees with you, we all should be ashamed now xD

This is working its way into turning into a Gary Larson 'toon: one fat kid with glasses' imaginary pal whups the stuffing out of the other kid's imaginary pal.

 

[Yazata]

My proof is my experience. And I made up my mind after people on here suggested I was insane when I never meant that part.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Also, darkest knight confirmed spirit children are a thing, so there's proof:

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Also, this website gives me MAJOR Reddit vibes. Are most of the users on here Redditors? Just asking

He says: "many people who have spirit spouses have CLAIMED to have produced children"

I don't know (or care) if this screenshot is from the public forum or a DM you had with him, but it clearly is an attempt to advertise that forum.

You are probably much better off there.

 

[HoldAll]

Here we are, writing well-considered lengthy responses and racking our collective brains what to make of an offhand post by someone who is apparently caught up in the middle of intriguing occult adentures and who can't wait to tell the world all about them with baited breath. The title of the thread alone is clickbait: "My higher self is a DEMON?!?" So of course everybody joins right in because that claim is just too controversial for words. It's unverified personal gnosis and therefore useless to deduce any universally applicable significance from it. So the OP claims that X happened and that it meant Y while we say, bullshit, and thus reach an impasse. Lots of drama occurs, the OP sulks or plays the 'pure fool' (as in the Parsifal story and the Wagner opera of the same name), page after page of comments are written until finally the circus leaves town. Or another thread gets started by the OP, probably featuring a visit from the demonic in-laws, triggering yet another round of comment ping-pong. And now everybody meditate, go for a walk, do their grocery shopping for the weekend or whatever, shoo-shoo (and that exhortation is directed at regrettably sensation-hungry me as well).

 

[stratamaster78]

Here we are, writing well-considered lengthy responses and racking our collective brains what to make of an offhand post by someone who is apparently caught up in the middle of intriguing occult adentures and who can't wait to tell the world all about them with baited breath. The title of the thread alone is clickbait: "My higher self is a DEMON?!?" So of course everybody joins right in because that claim is just too controversial for words. It's unverified personal gnosis and therefore useless to deduce any universally applicable significance from it. So the OP claims that X happened and that it meant Y while we say, bullshit, and thus reach an impasse. Lots of drama occurs, the OP sulks or plays the 'pure fool' (as in the Parsifal story and the Wagner opera of the same name), page after page of comments are written until finally the circus leaves town. Or another thread gets started by the OP, probably featuring a visit from the demonic in-laws, triggering yet another round of comment ping-pong. And now everybody meditate, go for a walk, do their grocery shopping for the weekend or whatever, shoo-shoo (and that exhortation is directed at regrettably sensation-hungry me as well).

Really all that needs to be said is..

‘Your Higher Self is not a Demon (Nor an Incubus) because no one else’s is either.’

That’s it.

Everything else is just Teenage flights of fancy and fantasy.

Truthfully that probably is better suited for the other place because they specialize in it.

 

[Xenophon]

Here we are, writing well-considered lengthy responses and racking our collective brains what to make of an offhand post by someone who is apparently caught up in the middle of intriguing occult adentures and who can't wait to tell the world all about them with baited breath. The title of the thread alone is clickbait: "My higher self is a DEMON?!?" So of course everybody joins right in because that claim is just too controversial for words. It's unverified personal gnosis and therefore useless to deduce any universally applicable significance from it. So the OP claims that X happened and that it meant Y while we say, bullshit, and thus reach an impasse. Lots of drama occurs, the OP sulks or plays the 'pure fool' (as in the Parsifal story and the Wagner opera of the same name), page after page of comments are written until finally the circus leaves town. Or another thread gets started by the OP, probably featuring a visit from the demonic in-laws, triggering yet another round of comment ping-pong. And now everybody meditate, go for a walk, do their grocery shopping for the weekend or whatever, shoo-shoo (and that exhortation is directed at regrettably sensation-hungry me as well).

If he's on the up-and-up, then we're the losers. Worse yet, we don't know it. A prophet is without honor in his own forum? So be it, I guess. Fate will tell. Or not.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

Here we are, writing well-considered lengthy responses and racking our collective brains what to make of an offhand post by someone who is apparently caught up in the middle of intriguing occult adentures and who can't wait to tell the world all about them with baited breath. The title of the thread alone is clickbait: "My higher self is a DEMON?!?" So of course everybody joins right in because that claim is just too controversial for words. It's unverified personal gnosis and therefore useless to deduce any universally applicable significance from it. So the OP claims that X happened and that it meant Y while we say, bullshit, and thus reach an impasse. Lots of drama occurs, the OP sulks or plays the 'pure fool' (as in the Parsifal story and the Wagner opera of the same name), page after page of comments are written until finally the circus leaves town. Or another thread gets started by the OP, probably featuring a visit from the demonic in-laws, triggering yet another round of comment ping-pong. And now everybody meditate, go for a walk, do their grocery shopping for the weekend or whatever, shoo-shoo (and that exhortation is directed at regrettably sensation-hungry me as well).

If OP is right, we're the lameoid losers. Worse, we don't know it. So be it, I can bear the possibility.

As for the verbal jousting, isn't that what a forum is? A place where idlers gab? Occasionally, Socrates drops some pithy maxims, Diogenes shines his lantern. But those days are rare.

 

[Shaman]

No worries, thanks for the advice everyone It's time for this thread to end.

 

[8Lou1]

As is said its personal gnosis, but some things can be said openly. Like:
In islam it is possible to marry a djinn and have kids with it.
In several religious paradigms familiair relations with the unseen are quite normal, as long as these beings dont present themselves as god on earth.
Witchcraft bloodlines are often ofspring of a human and nonhuman relation on soul level.
Otherkin means you live your earthly life as a nonhuman soul in a human body, so youre always a halfling. Love both sides to heal and live.
Familiar relations are ment to symbolize the lovebond of such human positions. Ones own life experience can mess that up big time.
Written texts about the subject are worth less then your own experience, as the unseen wants you to experience life with.

 

[Amur]

"Sanity is defined by the insane majority"

 

[Taudefindi]

what to make of an offhand post by someone who is apparently caught up in the middle of intriguing occult adentures and who can't wait to tell the world all about them with baited breath

It does feel like that.

This does reminds me of those sites I spoke of once in a thread(this one or another), where people would make big claims of things that seemed too outrageous to be true, and whenever others argued about it they would either double down on their stories or avoid answering anything(or both).

Never thought I would experience such thing again, specially not so in a more serious site like WF.

Then again, co sidering how long I've been here and this is the first time I see suchthings, maybe this is only the exception to the rule.

The title of the thread alone is clickbait: "My higher self is a DEMON?!?"

Considering the OP believes firmly in his claim, it is less "clickbait"(as clickbait implies using one thing for attention but the content being different from what was advertised) and more a controversial post.

And now everybody meditate, go for a walk, do their grocery shopping for the weekend or whatever, shoo-shoo (and that exhortation is directed at regrettably sensation-hungry me as well).

I imagined you waving around a broom while saying "SHOO!SHOO!"

 

[Elementriloquist]

Body dysmorphic disorder? The world and people's perceptions are not automatically in sync.

Body dysmorphic disorder is just another type of crazy (mental illness) you are describing, so you are actually proving my point.

Also, reality and people's perception is perfectly and automatically in sync (for those without mental illness). Some people just actively choose to deny reality.

Even then, there is a limit to how much you can deny reality.

Tall men definitely notice that most doorways are too short for them, that they have to buy specific sizes of clothes as most don't fit them, that they have to adjust the seats when they get into the average persons car because they can't sit comfortably, etc.

Reality tells tall men everyday that they are tall, because the world is designed for the majority, and the majority are not tall.

If people are constantly telling you that you're tall you can maybe disregard it, but if your observable reality is telling you that you are "tall" (defined relative to average height) then it makes no sense for you to disregard it.

Yes. Every magician.

No, he said that by Western Psychiatric standards they would be insane. Not that they would be seen as "delusional" or "superstitious", but "insane". My argument is that at worst Richard Lustig would be labelled delusional, but he would never be labelled as insane because his belief is atleast plausible.

You could win the lottery eight times after doing a ritual and it's still delusional because no material cause-effect link has been established.

You are arguing against a strawman. I literally said that at worst they'd say the individual is delusional, but they wouldn't call him insane, because his delusional beliefs are actually warranted due to his extreme results. He was basically "tricked" into having his delusional beliefs because of the extremely unlikely results that he attained in life.

By Western Psychiatric standards he would at worst be a delusional and very lucky man, but he'd never be called crazy/insane because his beliefs are actually rooted in tangible and observable results.

Delusion does not equal insanity. Being delusional can be a part of mental illness (insanity), but being delusional does not mean that you are insane.

Being deluded just means you believe something that isn't true, being insane means that you have a mental illness.

For example, the people in the past that believed lightning was the wrath of some God weren't "insane", they were "delusional".

A child raised in a cult can end up having delusional beliefs, they aren't mentally ill though, they've just been lied to and convinced to believe things that are untrue.

Also, who decides what is extraordinary?

Our documented observable reality decides, and since we all share this as a collective, it is the collective observations of humans throughout history that decides.

If you or I see a man jump into the sky and start flying like superman, we would not need any other persons confirmation that something extraordinary took place.

We've spent our entire lives noticing that if we jump into the air our feet fall back to the ground. We've spent our entire lives noticing that with all animals that don't have wings the same phenomenon occurs. Just by that alone, another man flying would be an extraordinary occurrence.

Bro cited a BALG user like it was a scientific article.

At this point I'm like 50% sure they're trolling, but because of "Poes Law" the other 50% has me thinking they're serious.

 

[Taudefindi]

being delusional does not mean that you are insane

True.

I know personally some people that have their delusions, but are very in hold of their mental capacities.

Delusions of grandeur are something common to see, everyone must've gone through at least one in their lives.

Our documented observable reality decides, and since we all share this as a collective, it is the collective observations of humans throughout history that decides.

Indeed.Such as the amazing feats of strength of strongmen in the past.Since most people weren't(and many still aren't) able to do those feats, they ended up being labeled as "extraordinary", and those are physical feats I'm talking about.

Something very easy to demonstrate, unlike more occult feats.

 

[Xenophon]

As is said its personal gnosis, but some things can be said openly. Like:
In islam it is possible to marry a djinn and have kids with it.
In several religious paradigms familiair relations with the unseen are quite normal, as long as these beings dont present themselves as god on earth.
Witchcraft bloodlines are often ofspring of a human and nonhuman relation on soul level.
Otherkin means you live your earthly life as a nonhuman soul in a human body, so youre always a halfling. Love both sides to heal and live.
Familiar relations are ment to symbolize the lovebond of such human positions. Ones own life experience can mess that up big time.
Written texts about the subject are worth less then your own experience, as the unseen wants you to experience life with.

I had a flirtation with Islam some years back. Some scholars do say it is permissable for humans to marry djinn; others come down pretty strongly and deny this. It seems pretty controversial. Classical sources tend to be against it. See maktabahalbakri.com

 

[WonderFire]

Body dysmorphic disorder is just another type of crazy (mental illness) you are describing, so you are actually proving my point.

Even then, there is a limit to how much you can deny reality.

Tall men definitely notice that most doorways are too short for them, that they have to buy specific sizes of clothes as most don't fit them, that they have to adjust the seats when they get into the average persons car because they can't sit comfortably, etc.

Reality tells tall men everyday that they are tall, because the world is designed for the majority, and the majority are not tall.

If people are constantly telling you that you're tall you can maybe disregard it, but if your observable reality is telling you that you are "tall" (defined relative to average height) then it makes no sense for you to disregard it.

I used body dysmorphic disorder as an example of extreme perceptual error that exposes problems with human perception in an obvious way. Crazy people with are still people and their perception is still human perception. If human perception of reality can be broken to such an extent in them, it can be broken in anyone, especially to much lesser degree. Even if you presume that there is some theoretical (sane) human perception that is completely accurate in the way it perceives reality, you still couldn't presume your perception is on that level. Your own perception could be subtly broken and you wouldn't know it, in which case a comparison with this type of disorder which isn't on the level of "I'm talking to an entire menagerie of non-existent people" is is completely on the level.
At any rate, I disagree that human perception is ever accurate in its assessment of reality. Just look at cognitive biases. If people hold onto a perception or belief they'll rationalize it away to an absolutely extreme degree. If the reality keeps clashing with their perception or belief, they'll start experiencing cognitive dissonance.
Watch a soccer game with a couple of people and you'll see people can't agree on what's happening in front of their very eyes while the footage is being replayed over and over again from several different angles.
People have dismissed even bigger things than their height when it suited them.

No, he said that by Western Psychiatric standards they would be insane. Not that they would be seen as "delusional" or "superstitious", but "insane". My argument is that at worst Richard Lustig would be labelled delusional, but he would never be labelled as insane because his belief is atleast plausible.

You are arguing against a strawman. I literally said that at worst they'd say the individual is delusional, but they wouldn't call him insane, because his delusional beliefs are actually warranted due to his extreme results. He was basically "tricked" into having his delusional beliefs because of the extremely unlikely results that he attained in life.

Delusion does not equal insanity. Being delusional can be a part of mental illness (insanity), but being delusional does not mean that you are insane.

Being deluded just means you believe something that isn't true, being insane means that you have a mental illness.

For example, the people in the past that believed lightning was the wrath of some God weren't "insane", they were "delusional".

A child raised in a cult can end up having delusional beliefs, they aren't mentally ill though, they've just been lied to and convinced to believe things that are untrue.

Look, do you really think a psychiatrist wouldn't see a belief that Lustig caused universe to win lottery multiple times as a sing of grandiosity and potentially narcissism, on top of delusional thinking? Especially if he persists in it after being given the explanation that he is wrong and didn't understand it was just pure chance? Lustig wasn't a cult victim, nor was he raised in a society where belief in magic was common. He doesn't have that excuse.
If not, alright. Agree to disagree with you on this point. We can't wheel Lustig to a couple of different psychiatrists to get diagnosed so we can't know for sure.

Our documented observable reality decides, and since we all share this as a collective, it is the collective observations of humans throughout history that decides.

If you or I see a man jump into the sky and start flying like superman, we would not need any other persons confirmation that something extraordinary took place.

We've spent our entire lives noticing that if we jump into the air our feet fall back to the ground. We've spent our entire lives noticing that with all animals that don't have wings the same phenomenon occurs. Just by that alone, another man flying would be an extraordinary occurrence.

But we don't share observations of reality as a collective. There's no collective, humanity wide, observation of reality accessible to everyone. Some forms of experience are certainly more common and can be communicated about more easily (such as jumping in the air), but when you have phenomena that is more rare this breaks down completely. Witnessing a guy flying around is, for me, extraordinary, but it being extraordinary explains nothing and focusing on the quality of it being extraordinary actually hinders any investigation of what just happened.
Isn't levitation supposedly one of supposed yogic powers? If I saw a yogi levitating in front of me I wouldn't jump to conclusion that he is levitating because of some mysterious force, but rather I'd first look into possibility of some kind of illusionist trickery. However, if I didn't find evidence of such trickery, I wouldn't persist in this assumption. I still wouldn't conclude it must be mysterious force, but I wouldn't insist it must a trick. If I couldn't anything one way or another, I'd shrug and say "I don't know what happened".
The problem is that because illusionist trickery is considered more "ordinary" answer it is usually presumed to be true even when there's no actual evidence to believe it. I've seen this come up again and again in discussions of paranormal subjects. "It must be fake because it can't be real". By giving more weight to "ordinary" answer you are more likely to end up believing something that is false.

Here's one consequence of this approach- dismissal of parapsychology. A field that is more than hundred years old, it always conformed to scientific standard of its time and updated as science did. It keeps confirming weak, but real effects of telepathy and telekinesis. At minimum it deserves massive funding to really dig into these phenomena. Yet it is dismissed out of hand because it is "extraordinary" and researchers risk their careers by being labeled as crackpots. We could have scientifically settled the question of magic decades ago, but no.

At this point I'm like 50% sure they're trolling, but because of "Poes Law" the other 50% has me thinking they're serious.

One thing I completely agree on.


I realize I come across as argumentative and that this conversation is getting into increasingly weirder and obscure trajectory, so I want to make my basic point more clear: Searching for evidence is good, but judging what counts as evidence is even more important question. "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" is a SUBJECTIVE standard that actually misdirects people into dismissing much that seems extraordinary due to their biases.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

@Shaman .... No need to be upset. If you are delusional, things can change. If you're insane, you're not alone, I'm insane, and believe that things can still change, just at a slower pace with medications.
If it is true, then all of us are insane and delusional.
So, what I'm saying is you're not alone in any case.
It may not make you feel warm and fuzzy, were just saying be more discerning.