The occult and secrecy

[Viktor]

I would like to explore rationale for secrecy when it comes to occult, that is what are usual reasons to keep stuff secret.

I understand that in middle ages and even in ancient times things had to be kept secret or practiced in secrecy because of possibility of being persecuted by the church or because of threat of being killed.
Even the bible says how kings persecuted sorcerers, ex. Witch of En Dor was freightened of being killed by Saul, or Elijah killing baal priests.

This is valid reason to keep it secret, however there is no such threat today, but regardless it's still difficult to get to information, some things (magic, knowledge) are still kept secret, and I'm wondering why would that be.

Knowing the reasons why things are kept secret today and what sorts of stuff is being hidden can help in knowing what methods to use to continue searching further and what to search for.

Here are few hypotheses that come to may mind:
1. Keeping knowledge secret is essential for it's exoteric or practical value
2. Individuals or groups keep It is secret because their magic is very useful or practical and they want to keep the power for them self
3. Individuals or groups keep It is secret because their practices go against the law
4. General public would not be able to understand or may misuse the knowledge

What are according to your opinion most valid reasons or do you have your own hypothesis to add to the list?
Do you care to learn the secrets and investigate unknown or the get to the truth and what methods do you use?
Do you by chance keep anything secret or private and does it have value such that other people would find it very useful?

 

[Öwnchef]

Absolutely, they keep certain things a secret because there is the fear that people will try it out. Not because it is strong magic but harmful.
And no, I do not plan to uncover these secrets. See above.

 

[KjEno186]

"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." - Exodus 20:7
That Name is a word of power, YHVH, and thus even in this scripture it is obscured by placeholder words. Misusing words of power dilutes their meaning.

And now in modern times, imagine how much damage can be done to magical workings by fools who misappropriate words of power into their corporations, social media, and entertainment? Then there's the problem of egregore creation whereby a religion puts the name of God, in reality their own interpretation of it, into their own name, such as Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, they take the parts of scripture than make literal sense to themselves and craft a story in which their chosen egregore is very needy of worship (and the leaders are needy of money and power). But I digress...

It's no wonder that private grimoires exist because while magic does work, it's unfortunately easy to dilute.

 

[Viktor]

Absolutely, they keep certain things a secret because there is the fear that people will try it out. Not because it is strong magic but harmful.
And no, I do not plan to uncover these secrets. See above.

Makes sense, but how do you know your secret is worth keeping for your self or how do you know you're not wrong?

I'm asking because I have some secrets as well although what bothers me is that I need second opinion to prove I'm right about that it is really a secret.
I so far could not find any information on the internet about it nor trough conversation with many people but I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one knowing it due to some facts, and because of this I consider it a secret worth keeping, but feeling that someone must confirm it just doesn't let me rest in peace.

That Name is a word of power, YHVH, and thus even in this scripture it is obscured by placeholder words. Misusing words of power dilutes their meaning.

You're absolutely correct about YHWH, not many can grasp the meaning of it, but it's easy to get wrong since multiple candidate translations exist each with several possible interpretations.

It's no wonder that private grimoires exist because while magic does work, it's unfortunately easy to dilute.

Translations of most popular grimoires are the biggest problem, it's funny how editors who translated them complain about the work of other editors who translated same work, openly criticising them and also complain about lack of source which is all a sign of dilution.

But I'm also sceptical about private grimoires because I don't believe anyone could make their own, especially if it's being made for sale.
There are videos on youtube where people encourage making your own grimoire, which not bad if you have something to write, but this also attracts people who will make one just for the sake of making it, probably resulting in a bunch of BS.
Then knowing this, if you stumble upon some modern grimoire that was private or is being sold you don't easily know whether is valuable or not,
valuable stuff will likely remain hidden.

 

[league_ma_balls]

My opinion but who am i really, is that the secrecy is required to protect those who are not adapt or have knowledge not to hurt themselves or others. This is required based on many people i have met over the years.

 

[Öwnchef]

My opinion but who am i really, is that the secrecy is required to protect those who are not adapt or have knowledge not to hurt themselves or others. This is required based on many people i have met over the years.

This.

 

[KjEno186]

On the other hand....
"All this secrecy is very silly."
"All is arbitrary;"
"Then, on the other hand, what of Moloch, that form of Jehovah denounced by those who did not draw huge profit from his rites? What of the savage and morose Jesus of the Evangelicals, cut by their petty malice from the gentle Jesus of the Italian children? How shall we identify the thaumaturgic Chauvinist of Matthew with the metaphysical Logos of John? In short, while the human mind is mobile, so long will the definitions of all our terms vary."

- Liber777

 

[Elementriloquist]

some things (magic, knowledge) are still kept secret, and I'm wondering why would that be.

Some people may not agree, but I think the only reason is simply to hoard power, it's just the most human thing ever. The usual excuse is "to protect people from themselves" or "to keep people from doing evil", but the truth is, it's just about the elites and small groups that have this power wanting to keep it for themselves so that they can make their lives easier and control other people.

If magic was common knowledge taught is schools, and it was part of the industry of the world, and magic was basically like "science" in our current era, the world would be a much better and much safer place.

There are less criminals and "evil" people in the world than "law abiding citizens". But criminals have a great advantage in this world that all forms of power can't be easily accessed. But with magic anyone can tap into that power from anywhere in the world. So in a world where we can all collectively tap into this universal unseen force, criminals and "evil" people would be outnumbered by at least 1000 to 1.

Then there's the problem of egregore creation whereby a religion puts the name of God, in reality their own interpretation of it, into their own name, such as Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, they take the parts of scripture than make literal sense to themselves and craft a story in which their chosen egregore is very needy of worship (and the leaders are needy of money and power). But I digress...

I think the problem is magic hasn't been allowed to "advance", we don't have it down to "an exact science" yet because it was kept hidden. Had it been public knowledge and accepted as a fact at least 100 years ago, we'd already be in a "golden age". It would already be common knowledge how to create an egregore without any of the negatives you pointed out here.

 

[Viktor]

Some people may not agree, but I think the only reason is simply to hoard power, it's just the most human thing ever. The usual excuse is "to protect people from themselves" or "to keep people from doing evil", but the truth is, it's just about the elites and small groups that have this power wanting to keep it for themselves so that they can make their lives easier and control other people.

This is what I thought as well because I've heard those grimoires which are now digitalized and online are made wide available and put to public display only because they are not a special thing except for being old and rare.

However it seems there are some gems which are known to exist to some people but are not easy accessible, they can be found but only in single library, some of which not digitalized or digitalized but now downloadable such as online library where all you can do is read but not download.
One example of such library is

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According to some opinions this is so to ensure these books don't become widely popular (due to their contents) while in same time making them accessible to public.
I don't know how much true is this, to verify one would have to traverse all the libraries online and inspect books which is a lot of work to do.

 

[Öwnchef]

The things that are kept hidden all lead to a downfall. They are monstrous, brutal and dumb. Some of them destroyed whole civilications into oblivion.

There is no golden age after a complete destruction. It is all gone for good.

 

[Roma]

Does the teacher bear some responsibility for what the student does with his/her new skills/knowledge?

For how many lives would such responsibility last?

I met a woman running wiccan shop. After some direct questions, she said her job was keeping unsuitable people out of the craft. Suitability depended upon bloodline

 

[Öwnchef]

Archaeology says: not now. The time may come, though.

 

[Silsebyl]

I don't believe there are so many secrets out there. Many orders or authors of grimoires pretend to have secret knowledge of powers so strong, that they shouldn't be laid into the hands of amateurs.

In my opinion they just weave a robe of mystery to attract people, either so they join your order and stay obedient and busy to get the grand prize one day, or just to sell your book well and maybe gather some groupies around you.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

If something is meant to be unearthed, it will at some point, by person dumb or smart, young or old. What's done wit it will be the question. Oil pipelines, construction. Archaeology excavations, rezoning, etc. Something always gets found at its time.

 

[Viktor]

The things that are kept hidden all lead to a downfall. They are monstrous, brutal and dumb. Some of them destroyed whole civilications into oblivion.

There is no golden age after a complete destruction. It is all gone for good.

The only things that come to my mind is anarchy and methods on how to cause one,
or fulfillment of apocalypse, or dangerous ideologies.
However these things are almost impossible to achieve, today almost every country has psy-ops in place.
But this should probably not be called magic.

I don't believe there are so many secrets out there. Many orders or authors of grimoires pretend to have secret knowledge of powers so strong, that they shouldn't be laid into the hands of amateurs.

In my opinion they just weave a robe of mystery to attract people, either so they join your order and stay obedient and busy to get the grand prize one day, or just to sell your book well and maybe gather some groupies around you.

You're talking about secret societies, very controversial but they are not so secret, their secrets can be learned by knowing their motives and enemies.

If something is meant to be unearthed, it will at some point, by person dumb or smart, young or old.

Luke 12:3

 

[Öwnchef]

Again, nothing strong is hidden by anybody. The church hides stuff to distract from their inert pedophilia. Xenocides get hidden regularly. Moves to kill in some martial arts. Rapist strategies in psychology. A lot, but not magic at all.

Oh, wait. I have one I can tell you. The Egyptian lotus was used as Viagra. They sniffed it all day and mixed it with wine. You can see them doing it on the old wall paintings. Horny basterds, all of them!

 

[Silsebyl]

I am not only talking of societies, but secret 'holders' in general. There's nothing to it, no mysterious magical power which we dumb little mages shouldn't know because of reasons.

 

[Öwnchef]

From the pharaohs on, kings got a whispered "highest secret" to the ear during their enthroning.

Here are some:

• Pharaoh: Osiris is a black god.
• Pope: Habit testiculis et bene pendentis.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I am not only talking of societies, but secret 'holders' in general. There's nothing to it, no mysterious magical power which we dumb little mages shouldn't know because of reasons.

Look at numeric patterns. Not only in religious scriptures that could correspond to Qabalah gates and tunnels. Geometric patterns and verse.
Poetry. Literature. Pictures.

 

[Viktor]

Look at numeric patterns. Not only in religious scriptures that could correspond to Qabalah gates and tunnels. Geometric patterns and verse.
Poetry. Literature. Pictures.

Symbolism is definitely a proof of esoteric.
Figuring out esoteric out of exoteric is challenging and cool.

Egyptology for example, their writings, pyramids etc. are mostly if not all about gods and afterlife.
Or symbolism of free masons etc. esotericism is definitely not a thing of the past, it's constantly present in all ages and even today.

When it comes to the occult, I think esoteric isn't just about keeping things secret just for the sake of secrecy, or ...

I am not only talking of societies, but secret 'holders' in general. There's nothing to it, no mysterious magical power which we dumb little mages shouldn't know because of reasons.

... keeping magic secret because the more secret it is more powerful it is considered.
You're referring to holders of rare or private grimoires, agree likely they keep them secret only to attract people to their coven instead of because magic they have is dangerous.

But there are probably exceptions and valid reasons, such as herbal recipes ex. poisons or magic which can cause psychological trauma to victim.