What is "Initiation?"

[solxyz]

I often see people throw this word (and related terms) around in conversation as though it has a single, straightforward meaning. As the conversation proceeds, the participants seem to think that they are talking about the same thing, but to me it is unclear that they are.

Originally, "initiation" referred to one's induction into a specific body of rites (such as one of the greek mystery cults) or a secret society. As such it was inherently tied up with the specifics of the relevant rites and one's social positioning. While the term is still used that ways at times, it has also acquired a broadened meaning, to refer to a inner transition involved in a non-specific, personal, or perhaps universal spiritual path. Personally, I'm rather conflicted on the notion of a universal spiritual path. As someone who has explored a number of different paths to some level of depth and experience, I can see a lot of commonalities and I often rankle at the trendy and superficial academic fixation on verbal differences, unable to see past outer forms to appreciate the heart of the matter. On the other hand, I'm also aware of significant real differences in the experiential nature of these paths and even somewhat their goals. Additionally, I have a concern that many people mistake what I would consider personal, psychological shifts (either positive or negative) for something of metaphysical import deserving of the name 'initiation.'

In a sense, the specific term "initiation" is just a jumping off point for a wider conversation, in which we seek to determine whether we actually know what we're talking about and to draw out some of the different ideas that may be lurking in our minds about the spiritual path which are often glossed over when we too readily imagine that our path is a universal path.

 

[ahathoor]

Guess it's a bit like asking "what is play", and then it includes poker, DnD, Super Mario, hide and seek, and consensual sadomasochism.

It's a gateway event facilitating entry into something. An exclusive group, a set of religious or magical rites, an identity (student, doctor, wizard, warrior), a form of gnosis or connection, etc.

While these are all different, there are some commonalities... and when reading non-adversarially, one can usually figure out what is being communicated. But yes, giving overarchingly generalized definitions and analyses of what initiation is and what are its common traits is arguably of little use, and will inevitably lead to half-truths and reductionism.

The "initiations" in a magical/mystical context are either gateway acts of admittance into an in-group, or gateway acts that serve to transmit some mystical truth or gnosis, connection to daimonic / imaginal forces, or to verify and externally validate that such a gnosis or connection had been achieved.

 

[r4zorenigma]

It's a process that shifts the consciousness of the practitioner into a parallel realm where its like.. pulling away one of the many curtains to reality.. In the process, you are now exposed to certain earthly or spirits that traverse the physical andnear physical dimensions.. but you will also encounter circumstances and situations that seem oddly mystical and magickal in the sense that.. things will happen that dont seem as probable as prior reality. The exacting tuning depends on what type of system you are intiating into.. a high vibrational/pure light one or the majority which are darker, low vibrational systems..

Initiation is not simply joining something. The actual initiation rituals of many organizations can cause the shift in consciousness I mentiioned, but other times, they may not in an indivdiual and their shift only happens later in their experience into the new way of living and thinking..

Gangs, Mafias, Fraternities, Sororities, Cults, Covens, Magickal Orders, Religious sects, they all have initiation practices..

From my own experience, my initiation into Satanism caused a lot of things to happen really quickly.. things that I desired came quickly.. I would run into stuations and people that seemed to be more"underworld" and fringe in their careers and their titles.. but I also found ease in civil matters and courts.. Its hard to really describe.. its like my reality shifted.. but it wasnt all good..

ie: alot of things came easy and aligned with my ego based desires.. or lustufl desires.. yet, all came with a cost. ie: beautiful women who were very sexually forwarda nd easy going.. but they all had mental issues or lived strange fringe lifestyles. Opportunities for quick money but involving shady business dealings or people who were not good people, etc.

This is because Satanism works on a low vibrational frequency, and with low vibrational spirits.. not of light.. but more of darkness. When you initiate, you are opening yourself to the "underworld" of life.. Mafias too are apart of this.. as are gangs, fraternities ,sororities, etc.

Islam is the opposite.. Islam would be of pure light, nur, lux, the opportunities will be clean, the people u meet will be good for your soul, etc

 

[Kepler]

I often see people throw this word (and related terms) around in conversation as though it has a single, straightforward meaning. As the conversation proceeds, the participants seem to think that they are talking about the same thing, but to me it is unclear that they are.

Originally, "initiation" referred to one's induction into a specific body of rites (such as one of the greek mystery cults) or a secret society. As such it was inherently tied up with the specifics of the relevant rites and one's social positioning. While the term is still used that ways at times, it has also acquired a broadened meaning, to refer to a inner transition involved in a non-specific, personal, or perhaps universal spiritual path. Personally, I'm rather conflicted on the notion of a universal spiritual path. As someone who has explored a number of different paths to some level of depth and experience, I can see a lot of commonalities and I often rankle at the trendy and superficial academic fixation on verbal differences, unable to see past outer forms to appreciate the heart of the matter. On the other hand, I'm also aware of significant real differences in the experiential nature of these paths and even somewhat their goals. Additionally, I have a concern that many people mistake what I would consider personal, psychological shifts (either positive or negative) for something of metaphysical import deserving of the name 'initiation.'

In a sense, the specific term "initiation" is just a jumping off point for a wider conversation, in which we seek to determine whether we actually know what we're talking about and to draw out some of the different ideas that may be lurking in our minds about the spiritual path which are often glossed over when we too readily imagine that our path is a universal path.

Context clues help to figure out what a person is referring to.

However, it's understandable that if a person has no experience with something then their mind can't imagine circumstances outside of it and rankle. For example, when a person thinks an authority figure and established dogma is needed for initiation due to the limits of their experience then they can't imagine circumstances without them.
Nihil est in intellectu quod non sit prius in sensu nisi ipse intellectus

Initiation in the way I use the term is to mean the beginning of a spiritual process. Specifically for my circumstances the development from deconstructing recorded ceremonies to create a revisable spiritual ideal of active equilibrium which assists the initiate as they enter into calcination and throughout the process.

 

[Ignotus]

pulling away one of the many curtains to reality..

Calling initiation pulling away one of the many curtains to reality and then again splitting the entire phenomenon into "high vibrational/pure light" versus "darkness, low vibration" doesn’t really go good together.

Islam is the opposite.. Islam would be of pure light, nur, lux, the opportunities will be clean, the people u meet will be good for your soul, etc

This is romantic idealisation. Anyone familiar with Islamic history or living Muslim communities knows that power struggles, violence, corruption and all sorts of human evil exist there just like in any other parts of the world. And if we’re talking about mystical Islam: Sufism is full of annihilation, confrontation with the lower self and states that many LHP occultists would instantly recognise from their own work. To portray Islam as pure light while labeling everything else as low vibrational underworld is yet another dualistic ‍‌‍‍‌fantasy.

I often see people throw this word (and related terms) around in conversation as though it has a single, straightforward meaning. As the conversation proceeds, the participants seem to think that they are talking about the same thing, but to me it is unclear that they are.

Originally, "initiation" referred to one's induction into a specific body of rites (such as one of the greek mystery cults) or a secret society. As such it was inherently tied up with the specifics of the relevant rites and one's social positioning. While the term is still used that ways at times, it has also acquired a broadened meaning, to refer to a inner transition involved in a non-specific, personal, or perhaps universal spiritual path. Personally, I'm rather conflicted on the notion of a universal spiritual path. As someone who has explored a number of different paths to some level of depth and experience, I can see a lot of commonalities and I often rankle at the trendy and superficial academic fixation on verbal differences, unable to see past outer forms to appreciate the heart of the matter. On the other hand, I'm also aware of significant real differences in the experiential nature of these paths and even somewhat their goals. Additionally, I have a concern that many people mistake what I would consider personal, psychological shifts (either positive or negative) for something of metaphysical import deserving of the name 'initiation.'

In a sense, the specific term "initiation" is just a jumping off point for a wider conversation, in which we seek to determine whether we actually know what we're talking about and to draw out some of the different ideas that may be lurking in our minds about the spiritual path which are often glossed over when we too readily imagine that our path is a universal path.

In actual initiations within orders and mystery traditions, the rites themselves are meant to produce a real effect. A classic example is the burial in a coffin. Its not just some theater play. It is intended to actually bring about the death of the old self and the birth of a new one. The psyche is intentionally sent through a threshold: something is broken down and something else is meant to take its place.

Such rite is often followed by the reveal of a certain mystery or secret, which anchors the experience. What is revealed to you is the thing you will never forget because of the bond with the ritual.

But these initiations not only do there thing on a symbolic and psychic level, but also on an energetic level. It sets energys in motion and connects you to a living current that is passed on through a lineage. Like Priestly ordinations and consecrations, thats basically the same. This is why the form and the transmission matter and why they cannot be replaced by a personal experience, however intense it was.

When the word Initiation is used in a more personal sense, those factors mostly disappear. Whats left is an intense inner experience which may be significant, but is not the same as being initiated, even if it can bring about profound changes in a person. I would make a distinction between this transformative experience and an actual initiation. And imo different initiations can definitely have similarities without necessarily being the same process. The changes they bring about in you, as well as the knowledge that is revealed can differ immensely.

 

[r4zorenigma]

Calling initiation pulling away one of the many curtains to reality and then again splitting the entire phenomenon into "high vibrational/pure light" versus "darkness, low vibration" doesn’t really go good together.


This is romantic idealisation. Anyone familiar with Islamic history or living Muslim communities knows that power struggles, violence, corruption and all sorts of human evil exist there just like in any other parts of the world. And if we’re talking about mystical Islam: Sufism is full of annihilation, confrontation with the lower self and states that many LHP occultists would instantly recognise from their own work. To portray Islam as pure light while labeling everything else as low vibrational underworld is yet another dualistic ‍‌‍‍‌fantasy.



In actual initiations within orders and mystery traditions, the rites themselves are meant to produce a real effect. A classic example is the burial in a coffin. Its not just some theater play. It is intended to actually bring about the death of the old self and the birth of a new one. The psyche is intentionally sent through a threshold: something is broken down and something else is meant to take its place.

Such rite is often followed by the reveal of a certain mystery or secret, which anchors the experience. What is revealed to you is the thing you will never forget because of the bond with the ritual.

But these initiations not only do there thing on a symbolic and psychic level, but also on an energetic level. It sets energys in motion and connects you to a living current that is passed on through a lineage. Like Priestly ordinations and consecrations, thats basically the same. This is why the form and the transmission matter and why they cannot be replaced by a personal experience, however intense it was.

When the word Initiation is used in a more personal sense, those factors mostly disappear. Whats left is an intense inner experience which may be significant, but is not the same as being initiated, even if it can bring about profound changes in a person. I would make a distinction between this transformative experience and an actual initiation. And imo different initiations can definitely have similarities without necessarily being the same process. The changes they bring about in you, as well as the knowledge that is revealed can differ immensely.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. but I feel your post and sentiments are very telling.. However, I'm not here to argue on any points or enter a debate.. I'm on this forum to share my own experiences and perspectives-- but, I'll ask a simple question.

What orders or rites have you been initiated into?

 

[Ignotus]

I disagree with pretty much everything you said.. but since I'm not here to argue, I'll ask a simple question.

What orders or rites have you been initiated into?

I don't discuss my participation in orders or the degrees I hold online, I don't need that to polish my ego or to prove something with that like other long time occultist My post should be clear enough without that and anyone with a bit of background knowledge or willing to do some research will see my point.
Also, you’re free to disagree with everything I say. Everyone is entitled to have their own belifes. I didn’t respond to your post to change your mind, but to show others reading this that your statements aren’t the ultimate truth, but rather your own dualistic fantasys imo.

 

[Kepler]

I don't discuss my participation in orders or the degrees I hold online, I don't need that to polish my ego or to prove something with that like other long time occultist My post should be clear enough without that and anyone with a bit of background knowledge or willing to do some research will see my point.
Also, you’re free to disagree with everything I say. Everyone is entitled to have their own belifes. I didn’t respond to your post to change your mind, but to show others reading this that your statements aren’t the ultimate truth, but rather your own dualistic fantasys imo.

But these initiations not only do there thing on a symbolic and psychic level, but also on an energetic level. It sets energys in motion and connects you to a living current that is passed on through a lineage. Like Priestly ordinations and consecrations, thats basically the same. This is why the form and the transmission matter and why they cannot be replaced by a personal experience, however intense it was.

When the word Initiation is used in a more personal sense, those factors mostly disappear. Whats left is an intense inner experience which may be significant, but is not the same as being initiated, even if it can bring about profound changes in a person. I would make a distinction between this transformative experience and an actual initiation. And imo different initiations can definitely have similarities without necessarily being the same process. The changes they bring about in you, as well as the knowledge that is revealed can differ immensely.

There's a spiritual process that causes changes that can be deconstructed beneath transmission dogma which was established to mediate access to the spiritual experience through a fiction of control.
A fiction that tries to validate the presence of those controllers by making them necessary in a circular self-justifying sense of sanctioned authority. Meaning the spiritual experiences can happen without that dogma. A dogma which only exists as an interface to facilitate and establish a sanctioned experience through gatekeepers.
By having that framework a receiver of the transmission psychologically becomes one of the gatekeepers. Putting them in a position to defend the dogma as letting go of it would undermine the misplaced sense of uniqueness that's connected to the transmission fiction instead of upon a unique spiritual experience accessible to all.
There's no need for transmission. That's just fiction that creates a feedback loop in those that take whole cloth unquestioningly the transmission dogma upon their spiritual experience. It's old school hierarchal thinking that can be let go of for an egalitarian system of fallibilist peer review mirroring secular and scientific methods.

 

[Ignotus]

There's a spiritual process that causes changes that can be deconstructed beneath transmission dogma which was established to mediate access to the spiritual experience through a fiction of control.
A fiction that tries to validate the presence of those controllers by making them necessary in a circular self-justifying sense of sanctioned authority. Meaning the spiritual experiences can happen without that dogma. A dogma which only exists as an interface to facilitate and establish a sanctioned experience through gatekeepers.
By having that framework a receiver of the transmission psychologically becomes one of the gatekeepers. Putting them in a position to defend the dogma as letting go of it would undermine the misplaced sense of uniqueness that's connected to the transmission fiction instead of upon a unique spiritual experience accessible to all.
There's no need for transmission. That's just fiction that creates a feedback loop in those that take whole cloth unquestioningly the transmission dogma upon their spiritual experience. It's old school hierarchal thinking that can be let go of for an egalitarian system of fallibilist peer review mirroring secular and scientific methods.

The distinction I'm making is about the nature of the process: the rite, the transmission and the lineage. It's not about declaring one persons experience real and anothers fake. Someone can reach those spheres or whatever even the divine within themselves without initiation. Know thyself. But imo reaching something through personal experience and undergoing an actual initiation are not the same process. You can have an extremely profound experience on your own, but that doesn't automatically make it an initiation in that sense.

As for gatekeeping: I do believe a lineage connects you to a living current and gives you a certain kind of energy and power. But even if you dont belive that, the difference is still there. Take the coffin example. It's meant to bring the death of the old self and the birth of a new one and you can't do that to yourself. You don't know what's coming and once you're buried, the first few minutes might be fine. After 5, 10, 15 minutes the panic starts. "What if they want to get rid of me?" The air gets thinner, and all you can do is hold on to what you've learned and calm yourself down. That is where the old self starts to break down. That kind of surrender and uncertainty can't be recreated alone, and neither can what it does to you. And then you´re dugged out and a big mystery or secret is revealed to you. It lands in your consciousness completely differently than it would any other way.

That doesn't mean the personal path leads no where. It can bring profound changes and im sure you can end up at the same goal eventually. But the process is different and I doubt the inner experience will ever be the same as by an initiation. Which path seems better or makes more sense to someone is another question.

 

[ahathoor]

@Ignotus hence what I wrote about "verifyng and externally validating" one's achieved gnosis or connection... In a way, being recognized makes it "more real", in the same way being published by an editor is what makes one a "real writer".

In this context, the gnosis or connection is the magician's own work and personal achievement, possibly with the help / support of the order (like via a curriculum), and a prerequisite, not result, orf the rite of initiation.

I think many of us with a history in occult had the experience of a teacher telling them after casual conversation that it's time to recognize what has clearly already happened.