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"Me personally I have no problem with anyone's path be it RHP, LHP, MP...whatever.
It also doesn't bother me one way or the other which entities anyone wants to work with.... that is their choice.
I haven't even seen anyone talking 'smack' one way or the other but maybe I haven't been paying that close of attention."
Exactly. If someone wants to make love to or work with demons, then fine.
If demons obstruct me, then Im calling on angels to control the situation and outcome.
The path you choose is up to you. I have no love for demons, because theyve fucked me up when I didnt give them what they wanted. Whereas angels are happy to help in certain regards. Angels can also fuck a person up as Vandheer pointed out on the "bad" shem angels.
The Dane Cook of magick, the Right hand...
there have been many shots fired in the L.H. section from 'round these parts-
and we are firing back, especially about the angels.
completely "left-read" how it was explained to me was:
dee's magick is probably a way to usher in the literal apocalypse
because those feathery pricks want it to happen since it so happens
that they are literally soldiers.
Some might like humans? to most of them we are less than monkeys.
But don't kid yourselves, they have agendas too and are not
your babysitters or fairy godmothers.
And yet, the right hand gang over and over
falls back to angels over the smallest matters
the usual logic being sort of - why entity, or servitor, or familiar, or x or y or z when you can angel?
now, i don't want to be that guy (haha) but that is like, to my humble diss track, a bomb for an insect.
also, feels like a very American thing. You guys have a way with Christianity, but regardless of that
the rhetoric with the angels feels very Bible Belt type of talk.
go on, name me one fictional universe where they are not homicidal.
the latest i enjoyed were the angels from .....Good omens!
Well let me start by saying that I rather enjoyed "feathery picks" and found it quite humourous. When you said they wanted to happen I couldn't help but think of Good Omens. I will also give you that sometimes angels can be a lot worse than working with kakodaemons. Yes it is true that I, like many magicians, recommend that you first contact certain angels or in my preference in Olympic spirit before attempting to call something of an infernal nature. Oh we stresses to the point that one might think if they don't do this or going to implode. The truth of the matter is depending on who or what you call up you may be just fine. Well I would not say that these infernal entities are people in the sense that they lead a completely different existence than we do and have different faculties than we do, treating them with respect like you would treat any person will go a long way. Well I don't recommend somebody pick up the articulation and start practicing it as her first grimoire, if you do I recommend Samgina as a guide. She is very helpful and honestly comes across more as a departed human soul then a kakodaemon. She can help convey messages to others of the legion, protect you, stand in s a mediator and we even tell you who not to talk to for your own safety or peace of mind. I have never known anybody to have to bind her to a triangle or threaten her with the blasting rod. The fact of the matter is some of these entities are fairly benign despite being labeled as infernal. There are others such as asmodeus that I would highly recommend you do not.
However, I stand by the statement that if you are not able to command to some degree of competency, the authority of God, you are ill prepared to direct and bind these entities if you should need to do so. You aren't there to be a dick or be aggressive but you must be assertive with a good number of them.
There are two ways to approach working with inferno entities. Well there are more than two but we're going to talk about the two main ones and then I'm going to tell you how I work with them. The first is the classic Solomonic style where you command authority and bind the demon to do your bidding. Now before we go any further I need to state that you are not necessarily binding the demon and keeping it prisoner. That is a common misconception. You can do that but that's more like working with something called an Nganga which is not Solomonic. Generally what you were doing is you are constraining a demon to a space so that it cannot harm you and then you are binding it to an agreement that it will not do so before you proceed to work with it. You might also find it to a sigil or a talisman so that it has a locus, some material magica to anchor and allow it to do its work. I think most of us are familiar with the solomonic concept so I'm not going to pontificate on it further.
I think you are probably more interested in the second way of doing things, which some have turned the low magic approach of working with catalogs such as the Ars Goetia. This method is to simply work with the demon as a familiar spirit and peer. Now this absolutely can work and I know many witches who effectively pull it off. However every single one of them has a specific demon they already have a bonded relationship too that protects them when interacting with other demons. It's kind of like having your own Digimon partner to keep other Digimon from harming you but it's demons. I don't see anything inherently wrong with this approach but there are some dangers to it. Nonetheless if you are interested with this approach I would suggest the witches key to the legion by Lauralei Black.
Now the dangers to this approach I should think would be obvious. Hear your companion demon is working with you and often giving you a no call list so that you know who you shouldn't contact, at least yet. See that's the thing you have insider knowledge about which demons are friendly in which are obnoxious. You don't need a circle if you know the demon isn't going to try anything.
But see, most people do not have that no call list and are exploring this blindly. Also the demon who shows up may not be the demon you wanted and so not only do you need to know call list you do need some kind of spirit ally to have your back.
If I am teaching someone how to be Goes or a Magician etc. I need to make sure they have the toolkit needed to protect themselves should they have to. Oh sure I could give you a list of entities that are safer to work with, but I know better than to think you will always listen to me and do the work of cultivating a relationship with those entities or avoid those listed on the Do not Call list. Oh yes I know they are enticing like bourbon in the parents liquor cabinet.
Also make no mistake that these are infernal beings a purely cthonic nature. Well I will not say that they are not cunning or cannot be rational, they don't have mans Fire or as the Hebrews say Ruach. They beings of habit and desire and appetite, being if the Nephesh, and they don't always see the light in terms of their behavior. On the other hand they can often be appeased and you can even guide them in their tantrums whereas Angels often just don't care if you get in the way. If they aren't charged to look after you and you are in the way of the bigger picture you might have a bad day. There are plenty of times, like Ive said, where I would rather work with a demon than an angel. -and I'd rather work with both of them than work with the Fae.
Now how do I work with them. Will I use a circle and have a blasting rod and/or implement of consecrated iron nearby? You bet. If I don't know them from Adam of course I'm going to be prepared, in the most non-threatening way possible. It is okay however to be intimidating cuz you at least want to have a presence of assertiveness. It is important to find that sense of dominance where the demon would just rather not without being seen as a mizar. Yeah you have to have the authority that Solomon had but also the wisdom. Once a relationship has been established we go from there. If I decide to work with them on a regular basis and I haven't worked with a chthonic being from a western grimoire for many years now, I will bind them to in agreement which will incur consequences upon them should they harm me. They likewise have the right to negotiate their protections.
Now typically you are told, if you have a teacher who knows what they're doing, that you should always be careful anchoring a demon to a candle because that is to animate them with man's fire. I'll ever being indigenous and also of Paracelsian approach, I also, consensually, will bring him into alignment with divinity and help them evolve that they might protect of their own fire. They help teach us nature and we help them understand and come into free will.
Now it is not lost on me that this may be where the notion of selling one soul comes from. I cannot sell my soul because it is not mine to sell I am merely a keeper of it as it is God within me. The selling of the soul may have referred to the selling of parts of the psyche instead.
Of course the nature of fires that you can light another fire with your own without giving up your fire and I suppose maybe a better term is whoring your soul. I don't see it as such although it is a very intimate thing. I suppose one of the reasons why the church is so against praying for the devil is because of men were to understand his role in salvation he would understand that he has a direct connection to Christ in the Holy Spirit and does not need the church. That is blasphemous to the Catholic church and why they teach that man has absolutely no bit of divinity within him. Nor do I think we should all go around professing ourselves to be God because humility is very important. And the tradition I practice you claim your works are from you and not God or the Holy Spirit then you lose your ability to do them.
Also, I certainly hope you don't think of the enoki and entities as actual angels. On that note, you know I sincerely wish that this notion that enoki and is meant to usher in the Apocalypse would go the way of yesterday. It's become a complete misunderstanding. The word apocalypse originally meant revelation, an earth-shattering one that challenge your whole conception of life and influence you down to your spiritual core. Do you understand what I mean here one should go read the chapter of Pike's Morals and Dogma concerning the 19th degree wherein he says "the apocalypse is to those of the 19th degree, the apotheosis of that sublime faith which strives to God alone".
Yes it is true that Dee's work is based on "A Revelation of John' and 'Ezekiel'. But while it could be called The Apocalypse of John, notice that the word that we have here is revelation because that's what the word apocalypse means.
So what are we getting at here? It is this: how dedicated are you to truth? How dedicated are you to virtue. Are you willing to pursue the truth even though it may completely destroy your sense of the world and even that your sense of self? Are you willing to challenge those very things upon which you have built your identity- the end of the world as you know it. That is a major theme in the Enochian system. Don't think of yourself as so important that you will cause the end of the world by practicing Enochian.
Honestly if I want something done quick I'm not going to go to an angel. If I want to talk how to do it myself or inculcate virtue I will go to an angel. If I want a simple transaction to get something done I'll go to a Daimon.
There are a lot of Christians that are suspicious of even working with angels, and you aren't wrong that many of them don't look too kindly on working with familiar spirits at all. I am add mixed Christian and Native tribal religion so I am certainly an outlier.
However I will bluntly say that I don't like this modern demonolatry stuff. You don't worship them. These demons are not gods. I understand that many of them are what's left after various gods have been demonized- and to that and help restore those remnants to a God form but don't worship The chthonic Shadow as having a holy host. I'm not going to judge you for working with demons but at the same time I will judge the modern culture that is running rampant that sugarcoats them. That culture is dangerous and irresponsible.
"Me personally I have no problem with anyone's path be it RHP, LHP, MP...whatever.
It also doesn't bother me one way or the other which entities anyone wants to work with.... that is their choice.
I haven't even seen anyone talking 'smack' one way or the other but maybe I haven't been paying that close of attention."
Exactly. If someone wants to make love to or work with demons, then fine.
If demons obstruct me, then Im calling on angels to control the situation and outcome.
The path you choose is up to you. I have no love for demons, because theyve fucked me up when I didnt give them what they wanted. Whereas angels are happy to help in certain regards. Angels can also fuck a person up as Vandheer pointed out on the "bad" shem angels.
Well... The shim angels are often attributed to the degrees of the zodiac which puts them in line with fate as understood through the influence of the Stars and God works in mysterious way. You might say that Mufasa's death was just a circle of life but if you tell Simba that a shim Angel oversaw that situation and did nothing about it, he might think that angel is a real dick. I wouldn't say that I see the ship angels as good or bad but as they oversee the cycles of the heavens and also those of the terrestrial sphere influenced by those heavenly cycles they influence the cycle of life, widget times screws us all over. I suppose the only angels that are disliked more than the shim angels in that regard or the angels of death.
