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So, what exactly is a demon?

12RelayT10

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Once upon a time, God created suns and daughters.


According to current cosmological theories, our solar system originated from a large cloud of gas and dust, a nebula that was pulled together by gravity.
The central mass became the Sun, and around the Sun, planets formed, governed by the gravitational pull and radiation of the Sun.
These planets move within a ringshaped structure, a dynamic system in which each planet is subject to the gravitational forces of the Sun and mutual influences.

Earth, one of these planets, began as a hot, unrecognizable mass of molten rock and metals.
Through cooling (over time) and evolution (knowledge), Earth changed.
These processes are influenced by the ongoing energy emissions from the Sun and the universe.

Deep within earths core, where heat and force were strongest, there still remained that little demon of the sun, a kind of inner force that continued to attract and influence it, as if the sun held it in an eternal grip.
The demon at the Earth's core is not just an evil spirit, but a symbol of the power and influence of the sun that surrounds us. It ensures that the Earth does not completely cool down and come to a standstill, but that there is always change and movement. The sun itself is like a large, radiant ruler that keeps the planets within its ring, while the demon in the core is a kind of reminder of its influence, a small Demon that continues to shape the Earth.

The Sun radiates power and brightness, symbolizing insight, consciousness, and ultimate truth, its light illuminates the world and brings forth life.
The Sun’s light creates contrast, makes shapes visible, and provides direction, it is the source of knowledge and vision.
The Sun radiates outward, illuminating everything, but its light also reveals shadows, thereby exposing the power of darkness.

The Sun itself is part of a cycle of growth and decay. Over billions of years, the Sun will exhaust its fuel and expand into a red giant, then shed its outer layers, and eventually become a white dwarf.
After the white dwarf stage, it will typically cool into a black dwarf, unless extraordinary events occur, such as a supernova.
These changes will affect the orbits and composition of the planets, including Earth.

Demons in the grip of the ring, symbolize slavery, the dark force that lives in ignorance and fear of the unknown, the inner and outer devil hiding, trapped in the darkness that does not realize its own light also resides within.
It is a mirror, a symbol that the power of insight and understanding can only be found through confrontation with the darkness in which we have hidden and exposing ourselves, a darkness raised from a refusal to accept one’s fate, or the so called lack of free will in order to break free from these cycles, which suggests ignorance.

When people or magicians understand the true nature of magic and knowledge, they see that the Demon is only a part of the larger whole. By true wisdom, they can tame and transform the Demon, using its power to look deeper and see farther. Thus, darkness is no longer an enemy but a guide that teaches us about the complexity of the world and ourselves.

Only by understanding that the power of the devil lies in ignorance, we can experience the true magic of the universe, the interplay of light and dark, knowledge and mystery, consciousness and depth.
In this way, we learn that true strength does not lie in fighting the darkness but in understanding and integrating it, for within the depths of Earth lies not only the Demon, but also our own hidden power, waiting to be discovered, free from its old grip. The demon in the core, which symbolizes the power of the sun, will always remain a part of its story, a reminder of the great force that created and keeps it in motion.



In other words, the Demon has bad vision. There is a lot more to say, and a lot more to discover.
 

Kepler

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There is a lot more to say, and a lot more to discover.
Great post. Congruent philosophy, metaphysics with consideration of current natural science, and as you say at the end there is a lot more to discover implying investigation and revision.

One of those lines of discovery that's important to me is how to develop these modern considerations to lead an Angelic life and benefit reincarnation. Your post provided new avenues for me to apply Barycenter to a demonic idea; Luna/Earth I'd shelved further development until a path of ideas like you presented was found.

Even talking about the soul and its cohesion earlier in this thread has helped discover means and ways to experiments with my current hylozoic model that don't require the bureaucracy of traditional contracts to accelerate the dissolution of demonically aligned souls.
 

IllusiveOwl

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When people or magicians understand the true nature of magic and knowledge, they see that the Demon is only a part of the larger whole. By true wisdom, they can tame and transform the Demon, using its power to look deeper and see farther. Thus, darkness is no longer an enemy but a guide that teaches us about the complexity of the world and ourselves.
So like @Lemongrass00 , you relegate demons to the Jung Shadow and as inner psychology rather than as actual beings or cosmic forces?

And the Sun is the source of all material life in this solar system too, without the heat it gives off, nothing would be able to live or grow, let alone see as you said.

I believe we only see part of the picture, that the sun is the tangible heart to a supermassive intangible being.
 

albie

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In taking note that the Satan we're told to believe in doesn't actually exist in the Bible, that the Satan in the Bible refers to angels who tempt and prosecute man on God's behalf, that horned goat-like image of the devil was taken from nature gods in different mythologies, and that the gods of neighboring cultures were declared demons as a political plot (Ishtar and Ba'al for example), what is a demon? More specifically, are they more related to nature spirits than evil spirits?
Look at this demon... he sounds nice.

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Lurker

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It ensures that the Earth does not completely cool down and come to a standstill

Interesting, and the science is mostly right except that Earth's motions, both its revolution and rotation, are a consequence of angular momentum, not internal heat. The internal heat is responsible for the magnetosphere and geological activity.
 

MorganBlack

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Daimons are as real as anything else. I'm really not even sure any of you exist. :)

While Neoplatonism needs updating, it’s a good place to start if you want to engage with them.

The word “demon” doesn’t apply to the grimoire’s daimons. Demon mean 'evil spirt', a devil, and does not apply here. Even if they are capable to doing evil, so are we all.

Daimon means 'messenger', and they bridging the Underworld part of The Mystery (The Infinite, the Buddhist Suchness / Itness / The One / God) to us. As messengers to us from Mystery they take on half of our personal bullshit that's gunking up our personal local mythic space in the World Soul (quantum matrix, or whatever it is).

They will meet you halfway, and adapt to your personal mythology or framework —pagan, Folk Catholic, scientific, UFO, Lovecraftian, or otherwise.

Engaging with the grimoire’s daimons often means navigating a weird sort of intellectual Ring-Pass-Not, so I won’t dictate how to approach them, except to say they are liminal beings—half this, half that, between categories. Find your own balance of experiential knowing and openness to the Unknown. Too much "You" and you lock down the possibility space so they do not have any room to appear to you.

If you find the spot of playful openness, suspension of disbelief, and find that believing-yet-non-belief , using Verum (and other grims, I presume) they will most likely show up quite physically solid and exhibiting intelligence and self-volition, and maybe scare the fuck out of you. Not every time, and when they have something they want to say to you, or do to you. In these extreme manifestation experiences they will not just in your head, imagination or dreams, or communicating telepathically (which also works, I hear, so no slam to modern magicans) . I think for this to happen you have to sort of expect them to.

Becasue of their natuire of in-been messengers, the ritual and mythic framework you use matters. In a Greek framework, they take a philosophical appearance and tone. In an Egyptian one, they’re austere and remote. If you’re a hostile Christian, odds are they appear as hostile demons and may do you harm. (Not a recommended worldview) . A sci-fi nerd? They’re UFOs. A paranormal investigator? They’re cryptids. A nice pagan? They manifest as benevolent gods. A Folk Catholic? They are poweful yet imperfect beings looking for redemption.

If you wish, they can appear in dreams, but they are not the dream. We are all the Dream.
 

MorganBlack

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Stalkinghyena, right!

If you know , you know.

Growing up in the Anglo-Saxon US-UK-EU empire means absorbing the 20th century monoculture's materialism bias. So we're all pre-haunted by an inadequate yet default worldview that was proscibed for us from birth. The grims are one good exit door from that boring, little, grey room.

Lionel Snell, one of the founders of Chaos Magic, said science (read as materialistic naturalism, or materialism ) is a form of magic that makes things not happen. I do not know why exactly this is so, but I think you have to "move" to a quantum universe (or whatever) where they can meet you by accepting, at least half-way, they exist.
 

SeekerPS

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All the people trying to “explain” demons with science metaphors are wrong.

we cannot elucidate the true composition or origin of demons without any scientific way to test it. And for that we still need ways to measure things outside of the scope of the materialistic world. Good luck with that, maybe in another century if we are lucky enough to draw scientific attention to a field like magic

psychological models cannot explain how a part of your mind (not even of your brain) can affect specific changes in reality without any physical intervention whatsoever. People will bring quantum physics, but this people are not even physicists on the first place. Their hypothesis, if it could be called like that, come from oversimplified examples that are made so the masses can try to understand the basic principles of the quantum mechanics , but there is no way in which we can confirm it scientifically that our mind can affect reality with quantum entanglement or whatsoever.

the only things that can explain demons are religion and philosophy, which neither is comprobable nor can be put to the test. You can, finally, try to ask them directly, but why would you trust their answer as true?
 

Lemongrass00

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I believe a lot of what @Lemongrass00 refers to is the sloppy and archaic practice of attributing all negative psychological functions to "demons", as the church had done in the glory days of the Inquisition. I do not believe this, it's a cope that lays the blame off of us for our naturally predatory, selfish, and violent natures as living material animals who have evolved out of the brutal circle of life. Yes, Demonic beings can influence us, but every time you have a desire to do something nasty, it isn't Beelzebub whispering in your ear.
that is definitely not what I’m saying at all, actually you are the one attributing the value label of “negative” to it which would stem from Christian/ Religious programming.

I offered that certain psychic patterns we have usually related to repressed parts of ourselves, instinct, etc are symbolized as “demonic” but they should absolutely be worked with/ invoked/ etc.

As far as being able to pronounce with absolute certainty that they are separate from ourselves, our lenses, subconscious, etc cannot be reasonably shown.

the human psyche is vast and the encompasses everything, if you identify with just the ego then it can be hard to see that, not that I’m accusing you of that.

I think it would be much more comfortable to determinedly know that there are other/ higher completely autonomous beings besides ourselves in the universe, watching our actions, interested in our growth, maybe having some grand plan for us and an assurance of an afterlife.

I think it’s much harder to acknowledge that we are all of it.
 
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you’re saying that every entity ever all stems from humans? I’m trying to understand why people think we are the center of the universe

Yet when you study the history of gods, saints and also demons.... You realise that is very unlikely spirits exist just like that, without any human imprint or vision.

Just check for the demon Astaroth from Goetia. Despite having a name that was heard before (the Bible), it's clear that this entity is different from the demonized Astarté.

Still in the Goetia, you find Moloch. Even if people thought that entity was an evil god in Middle Ages, it was proven lately that such a god NEVER existed in Cannan.

So where do those description come from? When i read them, it's hard not to think that most of those spirits where actually shaped by humans through superstition and the world view of that time.

I do believe spirit exists outside of human, but i also believe it takes a lot of work so a spirit can move from a local cave to a god of all a nation.
 

Johny111

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Demons are spirits. Under the influence of Abrahamic religions, today’s people usually categorize only evil spirits under this term. However, that is one general perspective. Many occultists consider, for example, the demons of Goetia as forms of ancient gods, mostly from the Near East, which have been demonized by Jehovists. Thus, ancient pagan gods became "demons". There are also those, guided by a Kabbalistic worldview, who see demons as the same as klipot. This creates confusion, so it is legitimate to ask about Lilith - is she a demon, or a spirit, an ancient deity, or a klipot? This confusion is never really clarified...
 

Clear

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Aspects of consciousness, whether the private or collective resonance.

The universe in mental. In both senses of the word, it seems...
 

FireBorn

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To me, calling demons evil is a product of the Abrahamic lens. The concept of “evil” as we understand it didnt even exist until Zoroaster, around 1,000 BCE. The Hebrews picked it up during the Babylonian captivity and then went nuclear with it. Before that, the world wasnt divided into such simplistic binaries.

Demons are often syncretized spirits, many were deities of conquered peoples, deliberately rebranded as evil to erase the old gods. Ba’al, Ishtar, Astarte, and others werent demons until politics made them so.

I agree with S. Connolly's view: demons are divine intelligences. They vibrate closer to our plane, lower-frequency than angels, and that proximity is part of what makes them so powerful and personal. They existed long before Abrahamic myth, and they will exist long after it fades.

You’re free to define them however you want. In my experience, they dont care. If you want them to be evil, go ahead, it wont bother them. Theyre not interested in how we label them. Thats our problem. They exist in the now, for just a fraction of a second — forever.
 
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