Fragment 88

[8Lou1]

Ive been reading this thread over and over again, but i cant seem to find the logic behind 88=heil hitler and OP's question. But with that def. in mind, it might read like what came after WOII is bad.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Question, is there a fragment 87 or 89?

Majercik gives 226 fragments, some of which she asterisks as being "dubious".

But your question has prompted me to provide an additional resource for comparison:

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This is from Joseph Peterson's website and is much different from Majercik's publication. It is attribute to "Sapere Aude" (Wynn Wescott) and is much more approachable as an introduction to the CO. If you are familiar with Golden Dawn rituals, you may recognize some of these as inserted orations.

If you scroll down to you will find Fragment 88 has now become Number 191:

"Nature persuadeth us that there are pure Dæmons, and that evil germs of Matter may alike become useful and good."

Note that this one is attributed to both Psellus and Plethon, the latter being another Byzantine Greek who somehow thought he could introduce pagan gods as Saints in a post Schism reformed Catholic Church.

With respect to Ownchef's valid concerns for what I will call "bracket insertions", I offer up the original quote again, this time with the brackets filled by a value analogous to the algebraic "x":

Fragment 88 (modified):

"[ ] persuades us to believe that the demons are pure, and that the offspring of evil matter are good and useful."

 

[stalkinghyena]

If a translator does this he changes the meaning of a text according to his personal Weltbild, thus destroying the orginal and historical value of a text. More, he abuses a text for his own propaganda.

I absolutely agree that this is a basis for further consideration, examination and possibly exploitation. As history often demonstrates, the dead can indeed serve the purposes of the living.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Ive been reading this thread over and over again, but i cant seem to find the logic behind 88=heil hitler and OP's question. But with that def. in mind, it might read like what came after WOII is bad.

Interesting you should note that regarding the number 88. With regards to Ownchef's "bracket insertion" points, I recalled his mention of "Kek" in the thread "Connecting with Lucifer easily". Up until now my only other consideration was my recent experience with a "Law of Attraction" mindset which had viewed "88" as "two infinities".

I generally try to avoid "reductio ad Hitlerum", but Kek is something I knew nothing about up to that point, but within a few clicks I realized that there was great activity in "bracket insertions" I was not aware of. I can't help wonder if there are further yields?

But since numbers make me feel like I am a raven perked up at the sight of a shiny ring:

8+8 = 16 = XVI "The Blasted Tower", but also the 16th card from 0 is XV "The Devil".

And since I have now introduced the variant of Number 191, I risk "reductio ad Crowlerum"

1+9+1= 11, "the hendekad or accursed Shells" vide 777. Also a favorite with the "twin flame" crowd.

 

[8Lou1]

I think when you look at the last century, you see opening of egyptian coffins, the coming into being of a spiritual flow in the west and wars lots of wars.

Kek was a huge spyop btw. Im glad he found pepe back..

 

[Öwnchef]

Most important things were now thought and written. As any translation is easily forged, gurus and teachers are capable of deceiting you at will, science turned out to be a belief, psychologists are full of feces and the Greens are destroying the environment, what can we do?

I know, you could draw a Tarot card. Probably okay. I did this for the [...] and it said The Devil. Good one, indeed.

What about intuition? I like that a lot. Like a deep feeling something is right or wrong. An orientation that I can really trust.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Interesting you should note that regarding the number 88. With regards to Ownchef's "bracket insertion" points, I recalled his mention of "Kek" in the thread "Connecting with Lucifer easily". Up until now my only other consideration was my recent experience with a "Law of Attraction" mindset which had viewed "88" as "two infinities".

I generally try to avoid "reductio ad Hitlerum", but Kek is something I knew nothing about up to that point, but within a few clicks I realized that there was great activity in "bracket insertions" I was not aware of. I can't help wonder if there are further yields?

But since numbers make me feel like I am a raven perked up at the sight of a shiny ring:

8+8 = 16 = XVI "The Blasted Tower", but also the 16th card from 0 is XV "The Devil".

And since I have now introduced the variant of Number 191, I risk "reductio ad Crowlerum"

1+9+1= 11, "the hendekad or accursed Shells" vide 777. Also a favorite with the "twin flame" crowd.

88 is double Saturn. Also two infinities per rider Waite major keys magician and strength.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

88 is double Saturn. Also two infinities per rider Waite major keys magician and strength.

Actually 88 would reduce to 7, but that is still the point, 8 is representative of Saturn, Saturn is representative of time and age and death. Cycles as well with silence.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Majercik gives 226 fragments, some of which she asterisks as being "dubious".

But your question has prompted me to provide an additional resource for comparison:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is from Joseph Peterson's website and is much different from Majercik's publication. It is attribute to "Sapere Aude" (Wynn Wescott) and is much more approachable as an introduction to the CO. If you are familiar with Golden Dawn rituals, you may recognize some of these as inserted orations.

If you scroll down to you will find Fragment 88 has now become Number 191:

"Nature persuadeth us that there are pure Dæmons, and that evil germs of Matter may alike become useful and good."

Note that this one is attributed to both Psellus and Plethon, the latter being another Byzantine Greek who somehow thought he could introduce pagan gods as Saints in a post Schism reformed Catholic Church.

With respect to Ownchef's valid concerns for what I will call "bracket insertions", I offer up the original quote again, this time with the brackets filled by a value analogous to the algebraic "x":

Fragment 88 (modified):

"[ ] persuades us to believe that the demons are pure, and that the offspring of evil matter are good and useful."

If you back up. The Oracles speak of Hecate. Also not to evoke visible elements of nature...but then as you point out it goes straight into conjurations and purifications. Blinds?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

If you back up. The Oracles speak of Hecate. Also not to evoke visible elements of nature...but then as you point out it goes straight into conjurations and purifications. Blinds?

I'd say though, Finally, that whatever the intent of evoking nature, it better be done with strategy purpose and detail.

 

[stalkinghyena]

What about intuition?

It's more portable for sure. However, on that I think that [...] gave women a distinct advantage. Uterly ruthless....

Also not to evoke visible elements of nature

I like to compare that admonition to the Corpus Hermeticum XVI: "Definitions of Aesclipius to King Ammon... &etc":
"For the Greeks have empty speeches, O King, that are energetic only in what they demonstrate, and this is the philosophy of the Greeks, an inane foolosophy of speeches."

 

[Öwnchef]

It's more portable for sure. However, on that I think that [...] gave women a distinct advantage. Uterly ruthless....

Intuition is like a muscle. You train it it gets stronger.
Women are overrated anyway. Men are way more beautiful, Apollos. Women have these short legs and fat asses, ya know.

 

[stalkinghyena]

LOL. I'm sure that wasn't a "bracket insertion" at all!

 

[Öwnchef]

I like to compare that admonition to the Corpus Hermeticum XVI: "Definitions of Aesclipius to King Ammon... &etc":
"For the Greeks have empty speeches, O King, that are energetic only in what they demonstrate, and this is the philosophy of the Greeks, an inane foolosophy of speeches."

A hundropro true. I read a text of a famous contemporary greek prophet five years ago. He was in full rage against the Turks. "First they will give back the Hagia Sophia. Then we will overrun them and free them from Islam."

Well, well. I would call it a nice try. Anyway that guy is still very popular in Greece. Still another inane foolosophy of speeches, just as you quoted.

 

[Konsciencia]

Listen guys! God is a Demon Itself, and I'm not saying it in a bad way. I'm referring, to the fact that God is everything, and every single one of us. The Demons are Masks of God. They are not separate (DaddyMami) Loves to play.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: FRAGMENT 88
SUBTOPIC: Perspective on Demonology
⁜→ Konsciencia, et al,

By the contemporary understanding in "demonology," neither the Supreme Being, nor the pantheonsic set of positive Deities (outside monotheistic concepts), are considered to be associated in the santanic realm. A "demon" might be more correctly considered one element in the "lower agents of evil." In the thumbnail view of Monotheism, good and evil (factored to its simplest form) are typically polar opposites.

Listen guys! God is a Demon Itself, and I'm not saying it in a bad way. I'm referring, to the fact that God is everything, and every single one of us. The Demons are Masks of God. They are not separate (DaddyMami) Loves to play.

(COMMENT)

In the greater sense, neither the Supreme Being, nor the pantheonsic set of positive Deities, need to breakup the image or disguise the recognition of evil behind a mask (or supernatural camouflage).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[stalkinghyena]

Still another inane foolosophy of speeches, just as you quoted.

Your reminded me of an old joke:
"If Russian invaded Turkey from behind, would Greece help?"

Seriously, though, I thought the CH quote demonstrated a tension with the dried out and overworked mainstream philosophy of the waning Empire and the reactionary new religious movements which attempted to incorporate those philosophies into a spiritual context.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Listen guys! God is a Demon Itself, and I'm not saying it in a bad way. I'm referring, to the fact that God is everything, and every single one of us. The Demons are Masks of God. They are not separate (DaddyMami) Loves to play.

This seems to indicate the spirit of Fragment 15 in Majercik, attributed to Proclus:

"Every god is good." The Oracles testify to this axiom in those verses where they blame the impiety of men and say:
"And you do not know that every god is good. O, drudges, sober up..."

 

[stalkinghyena]

A "demon" might be more correctly considered one element in the "lower agents of evil."

In usual parlance it is, but it is also used generically depending on the context and source. In the Oracles, however, what you say fully applies.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Fragment 88
SUBTOPIC: Interpretations of "Demon" and "God"
※→. Roma, et al,

(OPENING) This particular thread is not being taken with any serious thought.

Demon deus inversus est: Demon is the inverse of god

So is demon the out-breath and god the in-breath?

(REFERENCE)

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(1950 - 2019) was the leading expert on the individual nature and character of the actors in the realm of the supernatural. She wrote the book on this topic. Ms Guiley wrote the Mug Book on Demons →
The Encyclopedia of Demons and Demonology Copyright © 2009 by Visionary Living, Inc.

(COMMENT)

There is a hierarchy in both the creations in the light and the creations cast out from the brilliant light of the Supreme Being (the monotheistic creator of that there is, the God of Abraham). There are very different "orders and degrees of spirits."

"[T]he Devil becomes more personal and the great antagonist of God as well as humans.
He is a fallen angel, the leader of hordes of fallen angels-turned-demons,
and he is the principle of evil itself."
--------------

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The Supreme Being is the creator of all things (angels and demons alike). No other thing or entity is comparable to the Supreme Being.

The inverse of an angel is a demon - and - the inverse of a demon is an angel.

Most Respectfully,
R