[Opinion] Karma exists, and it doesn't matter.

[Xenophon]

One

Well I mean, I don't know?

Could it have been Karma related?

Sure

But there are also people who are dang near saints their whole life and still have the worst things happen to them constantly while there are other people who are just awful their whole lives and don't ever face consequences for it.

So that's why I doubt cumulative Karma.

Though it's just my opinion.

I agree 100%. It's hard to scope out karma or figure out its ways. And it's cheap to "explain" every event saying "Karma, bro. Karma."

A suggestion about rhetoric: saying "that's just my opinion" weakens your point. Feel free to just say "X is Y" or whatever. Could be your opinion is right. Me, I prefer to finish my remarks with, "I the Great and Powerful Azathoth, hath piped and have played!", but listeners tend to snicker for some reason.

 

[stratamaster78]

One

I agree 100%. It's hard to scope out karma or figure out its ways. And it's cheap to "explain" every event saying "Karma, bro. Karma."

A suggestion about rhetoric: saying "that's just my opinion" weakens your point. Feel free to just say "X is Y" or whatever. Could be your opinion is right. Me, I prefer to finish my remarks with, "I the Great and Powerful Azathoth, hath piped and have played!", but listeners tend to snicker for some reason.

I hear you but I didn't really mean to use that statement as rhetoric.

I closed with that because I have personal anxieties about coming across as arrogant.

I try not to make "x IS y" type statements unless I know it's 100% so.

I try to be open about other people's ideas being right and having merit.

Anyway that's enough about me...lol

 

[KjEno186]

That's probably a good summation of Wilson.

The review of Wilson's book? I saw it on one of the Amazon pages for Beyond the Occult and included it as "an aside" to provide a critical contrast. But my take on the review is that it tells me more about the reviewer than Wilson's book. If I read between Stein's lines, he was saying that he believes in materialism as an absolute truth. He was not interested in anything Wilson wrote because Wilson was not a qualified member of academia, a SCIENTIST with a lab coat (Trust the Science!), and should therefore leave the important questions to the EXPERTS (those who confirm the beliefs of Materialist-ism). Furthermore, I'm going to say that Gordon Stein is/was probably an atheist.

Okay! I looked up this reviewer Gordon Stein, and my guess was right. Dead at the age of 55 in 1996. Maybe we should perform necromancy and find out what his thoughts are on the occult now?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"The entire secular humanist, rationalist, atheist, and freethought movement has lost a valued colleague and friend. Gordon Stein had prodigious knowledge of the literature of the movement, and especially of its historical roots. ...​

​

"Gordon received a Ph.D. in physiology from Ohio State University in 1974. He later obtained a second master's degree in library science at University of California at Los Angeles. He taught at the University of Rhode Island. At the time of his death he was Director of Libraries at the Center for Inquiry. He was making excellent progress in amassing the largest collection of free-thought and skeptical literature in the world. ...​

​

"His two areas of specialty, humanism and hoaxes, combined to make him an authority on Spiritualism (the supposed communication with spirits of the dead) as well."​

 

[Amadan]

I wish karma existed because I like the idea of one day being even with the house, but I have never seen any evidence for it.
I've heard and read many great theories and explanations but at the end of the day, there just doesn't seem to be any actual proof.
Also, I could be completely wrong.

 

[HoldAll]

Premise one: Karma is the chain of effects linking deeds of "past" and "future" with the "present" moment.

Premise two: Linear time does not exist as perceived by the incarnated human mind.

Premise three: Causality is not the simplistic model of physics, which is the only model accepted by mainstream materialistic science.

Conclusion: Attempts to "balance" karma are futile in planes of duality. Therefore karma doesn't matter.

Thoughts?

I forgot to ask - why do you think that karma exists in the first place? Is the some cosmic census bureau collating basically useless data and information about us that no higher authority ever looks at and that doesn't impinge upon our everyday lives?

Post automatically merged: Sep 14, 2023

Oh, I think I get it now: karma as a description of some ongoing process, not some astral tallying machine. That's an idea I can get behind.

 

[KjEno186]

I forgot to ask - why do you think that karma exists in the first place?

I'm trying to figure it out. The word "karma" has become as broad and shallow as the word "love." At least the Greeks have had multiple words for "love," which helped to clarify the intended meaning. But this isn't about love. It seems like the human desire to have an "astral tallying machine" to get even or get what's coming. But we dress it up as something more than everyone winding up with the exact same slice of pie in "the end."

I came from a religious background, a bit of a modern cult, wherein the King of Jehovah God's Kingdom, Jesus Christ, sits down on his throne and proceeds to divide up humanity into the good and the wicked. Nobody gets to see Jesus, though, so they have to take the word of The Governing Body, a group of men selected by "Holy Spirit" to tell everyone that we're living in the last days. And everyone who doesn't agree with The Governing Body will die and cease to exist forever afterward. They're as materialist as atheists in that regard, so when I finally decided that this cult was full of shit, I didn't feel like I had really lost anything. I was just going to cease to exist forever, and since I had no memory of life before birth, that didn't seem so bad to me. It seemed to me that The Bible was a contradictory mess, and its deities were caricatures made up by dumb ancient people. I was a lot like that Gordon Stein guy who reviewed Wilson's Beyond the Occult.

I'm getting older, but I keep asking just how deep this rabbit hole goes. And for the past couple of years, it has been leading me down this path in search of .... miracles? Something that will show me that there's more to this reality than what I've always known. I've seen some glimpses of it. Studying magic brings knowledge of concepts like karma. And there are always people who say, "Oh, don't do that magic ritual! You'll get 'bad' karma!" Well, what the HELL does that mean, anyway?

 

[HoldAll]

I'm trying to figure it out. The word "karma" has become as broad and shallow as the word "love." At least the Greeks have had multiple words for "love," which helped to clarify the intended meaning. But this isn't about love. It seems like the human desire to have an "astral tallying machine" to get even or get what's coming. But we dress it up as something more than everyone winding up with the exact same slice of pie in "the end."

I'm getting older, but I keep asking just how deep this rabbit hole goes. And for the past couple of years, it has been leading me down this path in search of .... miracles? Something that will show me that there's more to this reality than what I've always known. I've seen some glimpses of it. Studying magic brings knowledge of concepts like karma. And there are always people who say, "Oh, don't do that magic ritual! You'll get 'bad' karma!" Well, what the HELL does that mean, anyway?

You're right, 'karma' is such a diffuse concept it's almost meaningless. I've thought of opening a similar thread about the idea of 'soul' where I'd argue that there is no such thing (the buddhist anatman or no-self position), that should be good for another spirited discussion here.

I like Pete Carroll's concept of psychonautics, the experimental investigation of altered states and alternative worlds - you could define magic as the systematic exploration of rabbit holes, if you like, a kind of spelunking of the mind.

Funny that people always talk about 'bad karma' and not about 'good karma'. Nobody says, "I'll give that homelessperson a tenner, it will be good karma." I think the 'bad karma' stuff is just an old-hippy variation of the old obsession with sin and divine retribution.

 

[Xenophon]

I hear you but I didn't really mean to use that statement as rhetoric.

I closed with that because I have personal anxieties about coming across as arrogant.

I try not to make "x IS y" type statements unless I know it's 100% so.

I try to be open about other people's ideas being right and having merit.

Anyway that's enough about me...lol

I know what you mean. But for the past couple thousand years, creeds of humility have been vampirizing on the strong. You can see the results being played out in the cultural suicide of the West in these times. Most ancient folk considered (well-earned) pride to be a virtue. I'd like to see that make a comeback, even if we are sinking into Serrano's perhaps endless "época del plomo," the Age of Lead. (As opposed to those of Gold, silver et.al.)

 

[KjEno186]

"We are reminded of Ramakrishna’s parable of the blind men touching the elephant: the one who touches its leg thinks it is like a pillar, the one who touches its ear thinks it is like a winnowing fan, the one who touches its tail thinks it is like a rope, and so on. But anyone who possessed the power of sight, no matter how stupid, would instantly have seen how all these parts combine to make an elephant. It is as if the problem with our normal perception is that it has somehow been crippled or ‘damped down’ so that it only works at a mere fraction of its proper efficiency. So instead of perceiving the horizons of distant fact that our brains are capable of grasping we grope short-sightedly at the surface of immediate reality and mistake ears for winnowing fans and tails for ropes." - Colin Wilson, Beyond the Occult

Karma is the elephant...

I don't know of a doctrine of karma, per se, in the Bible, at least in the Protestant one.

Romans 6:23 KJV "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

That doesn't imply any kind of cyclical learning process towards union with God. Simply, you're born a sinner, you sin, you die, and you hopefully get eternal life in heaven with God. (The blind man touches the leg and calls it a pillar...)

Romans 6:7 New World Translation (JW's Bible) "For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

The implication is that sins accumulated while living in the flesh are a debt which is paid (see Romans 6:23) upon death. How would karma apply if one cannot be held to account anymore upon dying? Other translations render "acquitted" as "freed," however. Still, once dead, one is "freed" from the effects of sin, according to this scripture, so how does the soul carry forward a debt? (The blind man touches the ear and calls it a fan...)

Acts 24:15 KJV "[Paul says to governor Felix,] 'And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.'"

It implies that the sins of a lifetime still do matter in some way to God, and this is in line with the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus. The debt is still there unless one fills out the paperwork for free stuff (believe and be saved), and it's only a limited time offer (death bed confessions)! (The blind man touches the tail and calls it a rope...)

I think the problem that a lot of people have with Christianity as understood today is the idea that you only get one life in the flesh before being judged. This led to practices like infant baptism and forced conversions. Gotta save those heathen souls no matter what we do to their pagan bodies, knowatimean? That emphasis on the world-to-come really twisted the message of Christ who was a comfort to the sinners and a healer of the sick. But then we got the slave-moralism from Paul, "Obey your masters now, and everyone will get what's coming in heaven or hell." Is that karma?

 

[HoldAll]

I don't know of a doctrine of karma, per se, in the Bible, at least in the Protestant one.

It's all pretty straightforward in christianity - you are bad, you get punished, you are good, you get rewarded, but only after death (and I have my suspicions that this goes for the meek, too, who'll only inherit the earth when they have no use for it anymore).

It's much more complicated in buddhism. Ok, you've lived like a saint, so you get reborn on the highest plane as a deva, a god, near-eternal bliss all around. But one day, after countless millenia, your good karma is all used up, the bad one catches up with you... ok, you've been a virtuous human being, just not one with very big insight, so you plummet down to one of the lower planes for your next incarnation. If you're really lucky, you get reborn as a human again because this plane is held to offer the ideal conditions for liberation and enlightenment. And then a whole new ballgame begins during which you acquire new karma and hopefully some insight as well. Here's what's on offer:

1. the world of gods or celestial beings (deva)
2. the world of warlike demigods (asura)
3. the world of human beings (manushya)
4. the world of animals (tiryagyoni)
5. the world of hungry ghosts (preta)
6. the world of Hell (naraka)

So virtuousness or good karma isn't the only criterion that counts. Under ideal conditions, i.e. in the world of human beings, you inch ever closer to enlightenment as well, by meditating and whatnot. So you go to paradise or hell after death but it's not permanent (although it may feel like an eternity). Your karmic frequent-flyer miles are not enough, when all is said and done. You can only escape this cycle of rebirth and death through enlightenment which entails the utter extinction of individuality, or that's how I understand it. Complete annihilation of the self. No more struggles on the six planes of existence. I like it already...

The beauty of the whole karma/rebirth thing is that you are not judged by an omnipotent being; the whole system works automatically, without divine interference, so there is no god to love and no devil to fear; in this paradidm humans are simply slaves to a cosmic algorithm - which sucks, but there you are.

 

[darangal]

I'm going to stick with the thread title and work from there. After reading these posts I found some interesting content earlier in the thread and some soul searching material by OP based on cultural/religious upbringing.

I get OPs perspective to some extent because of the impression that is produced by one's family and environment and the half hearted approach to spirituality the produces a profound sense of emptiness and general dissatisfaction with life. The insufficient support and knowledge to help anybody through this stage in spiritual development particularly in those with a curious disposition can produce radical religious and philosophical transformations in an attempt to make sense of our existence and reality at large.

Based on the posts here I believe there are very few Buddhists on this forum. Karma unless witnessed by someone who is extremely conscious could be said to not exist simply because it cannot be perceived. A lack of self awareness and object awareness will make it all but impossible to observe the string of events that produce one's present circumstance. The idea that karma can extend to possible lives is intriguing however most of us have to deal with this life and the concept of karma stretching beyond it provides very little if any practical information. I believe it's important here to understand what produces karma because it's not simply a matter of actions. Karma is composed of intent, action, and thought. Bad thoughts produce bad karma. Good actions performed with good intentions and bad thoughts will produce lesser quantities of merit or good karma that same way bad actions with good intent ad good thoughts will produce less bad karma. There is also the concept of neutral karma whereby one's actions do nothing to tip the karmic scales. I believe it is impossible to prove that anything doesn't exist, supposing Karma exists it would have an impact on reality which makes it matter.

I can understand the annoyance with the overuse of the term "Karma" as it has been adopted by the new age and used within contexts which don't fit the intent or meaning of the term. Karma is used with the common connotative meanings which equivocates karma with reciprocity of reality, the word is typically used when people we don't like or approve of get fucked over and the exercise is a "spiritual" way of saying that they deserved it.

Even at a absolutely mundane level if you steal a car, murder a bunch of people at a gas station, and shoot up a nursery full of newborns with a bag of meth chances are bad things are going to happen to you even if you happen to be an absurdly perfect criminal.
That is my opinion.

 

[Xenophon]

I'm an ex-Buddhist, if that counts. Even did a several month stint at a Thai monastery. I wound up taking a left turn off the Dharma somewheres. I can recall my Buddhist thinking, but I can't step back into it. Evola's "The Doctrine of Awakening" pretty well voices the attitude I wound up with.

 

[Roma]

After some difficult experiences with group karma I am very wary about joining groups

One group was operating within the law as generally understood but had its real estate demanded by a bigger group. It turned out that by some 1942 legislation, the state government had to accept the bigger group's claim of ownership of the real estate. The government record of our ownership was irrelevant.

It cost my small group about $150k in legal fees and loss of the property to extract ourselves.

In retrospect we could have got out at no cost but the first 6 decisions we made were all wrong - despite our following the advice we were given

Such is the nature of group karma: not a lot goes right, no matter how hard you try

 

[KjEno186]

Here's something from the Qabalistic perspective, though perhaps the author is using the word "Karma" incorrectly?

"Note that the active element [Shin] is equal to the passive element [Mem]. There is an equilibrium, it is the law of Balance in the Zohar. This law extends to the entire universe. Therefore in modern technology, it is impossible to bring a certain quantity of positive electricity into action without bringing an equal quantity of negative electricity into action also. If there is an imbalance, then there is that which is now called Karma and that which is explained in the Bible and other ancient texts as the Kingdom of Edom or more often as the Kingdom of the Edomites. The symbolic language in Qabalistic books explains that when there is equilibrium, that is to say when the positive and negative energies are equal, we find ourselves in the Kingdoms of Israel, the Kingdoms of the sons of God, the Kingdom of duration. When the forces are out of balance, as a result of an error or for other things, that Karma is only temporary and that its real nature lies in the spiritual energies of Creation. If a new balance of these energies is achieved, it is sufficient to cause this particular Karma to disappear." - Jean Dubuis, Qabala, The Philosophers of Nature vol 1, p 24 (pdf in WF library)

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

"Karma proper is not referring to any form of action, but ritual action, to act in conformity with destiny. This means simply that social status or caste gives one man different authority than it does for another. Today the idea of caste is looked upon with eyes of disgust, but originally the caste spoke about your destiny and gave a foundation for how to achieve fulfillment and happiness in this life. It was absolutely essential to stay in your station and understand all its implications in order to make good use of it. [...]of course the idea of caste is abhorred because our perception of what it really entails has been falsified and deluded. This very human and material perception of karma is also infecting the idea of reincarnation and gives it a wholly profane moral content." - Nicholaj de Mattos Frisvold, Conjure Codex vol 1, p 19 (PDF from WF library).

This would appear to support the idea that Karma as a concept has been borrowed from the Hindu tradition and completely warped to serve the notions of moralizers in the West. So, if you or a group does something with unpleasant consequences, then just admit it was stupid, and you paid the price for your stupidity. It's NOT KARMA. You didn't have "group karma." Misusing words only dilutes their meaning and ultimately makes you a dumb ass (F).

 

[HoldAll]

Here's something from the Qabalistic perspective, though perhaps the author is using the word "Karma" incorrectly?

"Note that the active element [Shin] is equal to the passive element [Mem]. There is an equilibrium, it is the law of Balance in the Zohar. This law extends to the entire universe. Therefore in modern technology, it is impossible to bring a certain quantity of positive electricity into action without bringing an equal quantity of negative electricity into action also. If there is an imbalance, then there is that which is now called Karma and that which is explained in the Bible and other ancient texts as the Kingdom of Edom or more often as the Kingdom of the Edomites. The symbolic language in Qabalistic books explains that when there is equilibrium, that is to say when the positive and negative energies are equal, we find ourselves in the Kingdoms of Israel, the Kingdoms of the sons of God, the Kingdom of duration. When the forces are out of balance, as a result of an error or for other things, that Karma is only temporary and that its real nature lies in the spiritual energies of Creation. If a new balance of these energies is achieved, it is sufficient to cause this particular Karma to disappear." - Jean Dubuis, Qabala, The Philosophers of Nature vol 1, p 24 (pdf in WF library)

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

"Karma proper is not referring to any form of action, but ritual action, to act in conformity with destiny. This means simply that social status or caste gives one man different authority than it does for another. Today the idea of caste is looked upon with eyes of disgust, but originally the caste spoke about your destiny and gave a foundation for how to achieve fulfillment and happiness in this life. It was absolutely essential to stay in your station and understand all its implications in order to make good use of it. [...]of course the idea of caste is abhorred because our perception of what it really entails has been falsified and deluded. This very human and material perception of karma is also infecting the idea of reincarnation and gives it a wholly profane moral content." - Nicholaj de Mattos Frisvold, Conjure Codex vol 1, p 19 (PDF from WF library).

This would appear to support the idea that Karma as a concept has been borrowed from the Hindu tradition and completely warped to serve the notions of moralizers in the West. So, if you or a group does something with unpleasant consequences, then just admit it was stupid, and you paid the price for your stupidity. It's NOT KARMA. You didn't have "group karma." Misusing words only dilutes their meaning and ultimately makes you a dumb ass (F).

In „The Mystical Qabalah“, Dion Fortune goes on a lot about balance and equilibrium. For me, that word equates with „static“ and ignores the principle of dynamism, i.e. an imbalance between two or more forces; in my mind, things can not move forward if there is a perfect equilibrium and no one force is stronger than the other. It’s mirrors idea of homeostasis, the notion that everything alway will (or should) return to some sort of natural balance.

In my mind karma means that the ball is forever kept rolling because it never stops, no matter what you do (or don’t do) as every action will always cause a corresponding reaction and there can never be a perfect equilibrium, even when you choose not to act because inaction will also trigger some kind of response; when you live alone like a saintly hermit in the woods, for example, you deprive your family and friends of your company, making them worry (or glad to be rid of you, that’s another possibility) – you can not avoid having some effect on your environment, even when you’re not doing anything.

As far as concepts like „fate“ or „destiny“ are concerned, I’d like to think of magic as a means of achieving something you don’t „deserve“ in the ordinary course of events, whether it’s transcendence or escaping your destined station in life, e.g. by acquiring wealth. You’re throwing a spanner into the works of the blind machine of karma, so to speak, acquiring something you’re not supposed to have. That will bring about some new karma as well, there’s no denying it, but it’s a rebellion against the narrow range of opportunities forced upon us by fate or destiny. We’re meddling with our „normal“ karma, I think, and the question is always whether we’re ready and prepared to deal with the fallout, i.e. handling new and unfamiliar types of karma which we’re not accustomed to. So destiny is the drag of karmic inertia for me and magic a means of escaping the various vicious/virtuous circles we are typically accustomed to.

 

[Roma]

the works of the blind machine of karma

That is not my perception of the Lords of Karma. They seem to have clear directionality - to reduce the discomfort being experienced by the Logos that uses this universe as Its body of manifestation.

On a micro level I had that in the garden yesterday. I was pulling off the tops of some greens for my dinner. The plants complained that I was taking their new flower buds. I thought that they had far more than they needed but they responded that I should take the leaves and not the top buds.

So I did that tonight and the plants did not complain.

Planets are similar to plants. They like consideration from humans

 

[KjEno186]

That is not my perception of the Lords of Karma.

Which is a Theosophical view of things, and you're welcome to your own beliefs on the matter. It is my opinion that the word Karma is being abused from its original meaning.

To illustrate, from my comment above the writer made the point that "social status or caste gives one man different authority than it does for another." In a society with a rigid caste structure, being born into a particular caste IS your KARMA. KARMA as an aspect of Hinduism ought not to be singled out of an entire belief structure to suit the meandering thoughts of those born outside of that culture. Consider Hinduism in a holistic sense, and one's thought patterns will conform to the Hindu belief structure, and only then will you understand KARMA.

I'm probably pissing into the wind at this point since "karma" is now such a broadly shallow term used by everyone for next to nothing...

The problem with 19th Century occultists was how they liked to "discover" exotic teachings, presumably borrowed from other cultures and religions, which were just rehashed Western teachings wrapped in new colorful cloth. India, Egypt, and China were prime targets for such "cultural appropriation" (eww now I feel icky using woke words ). As most often happens before good academic scholarship sorts out the fluff and cruft, self-styled experts on these exotic (to Westerners) cultures made them palatable to their target audiences (people who bought books and joined societies) by analogies. In the case of "karma," the most obvious analogies were justice, fate, and destiny. BUT, we already have words and concepts to manage those ideas, so all that was really done was slap a new word on them and add a twist of guru worship & reincarnation. It was a very Anglo-American Protestant slant on "exotic" concepts being resold under new names. Magic works by analogies, so I'll grant them credit for that.

Karma devolved from an integral concept within Hinduism and its offshoots to a Western version of original sin, justice, fate, and destiny stuffed into a new word. Pop Hinduism for Western audiences continues this trend of dilution and 'democratization' in order to appeal to modern audiences. As an aside, a similar criticism was made in recent years against the surge of converts to Orthodox Christianity in America. They're still basically Protestants, having a Protestant American outlook on things despite now claiming to be "Orthodox." I wonder what that says about the Anglo-American Egregore...

 

[HoldAll]

Which is a Theosophical view of things, and you're welcome to your own beliefs on the matter. It is my opinion that the word Karma is being abused from its original meaning.

To illustrate, from my comment above the writer made the point that "social status or caste gives one man different authority than it does for another." In a society with a rigid caste structure, being born into a particular caste IS your KARMA. KARMA as an aspect of Hinduism ought not to be singled out of an entire belief structure to suit the meandering thoughts of those born outside of that culture. Consider Hinduism in a holistic sense, and one's thought patterns will conform to the Hindu belief structure, and only then will you understand KARMA.

Excellent summaries in your reply. And if I remember correctly, belonging to a certain caste meant that you were subject to specific religious strictures that did not apply to members of other castes, e.g. with regard to diet (Brahmin being not allowed to eat meat, Kshatriya even being required to in order to make them more martial? Something like that). It's just that you have to use some word to refer to the phenomenon that action (or inaction) has consequences somewhere down the line, no matter how long that line is, the butterfly effect and all that jazz, so you might just as well use 'karma'. The word is clearly not suited to describe rough justice, like some sin being immediately punished by a vengeful god hurling thunderbolts or going medieval on your ass for some small infraction.

I sometimes wonder about all those people who flocked to lectures by the likes of P. Manly Hall, Dion Fortune or Rudolf Steiner… was there some discussion afterwards or did people just lap it all up uncritically because TV wasn't invented yet? Was it all simply spiritual mind porn to them?

 

[Roma]

you're welcome to your own beliefs on the matter.

I try to keep to experiential statements

 

[KjEno186]

I sometimes wonder about all those people who flocked to lectures by the likes of P. Manly Hall, Dion Fortune or Rudolf Steiner

I hope I don't come across as being against Syncretism. In fact, it's quite instructive and worthy of a topic of its own to look at how Protestant North America interacted with the Spiritualism movement and compare that with Catholic Latin America and its interaction with the African diaspora and indigenous people. The Americas have been fertile ground for new religious and spiritual movements.

Hall, Fortune, and Steiner, among many others, certainly gave us much to consider. But as you implied, uncritical acceptance of anything that sounds "good" to one's ears is a sure path to folly.

Post automatically merged: Sep 22, 2023

I try to keep to experiential statements

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I agree with this.

Experience is subjective. My experience tells me that subjectivity is the intended experience. No two people ever experience the exact same life...

We are reminded of Ramakrishna’s parable of the blind men touching the elephant

You say that beings like being asked permission before being eaten. I say the Universe is a jungle in which predators eat prey, and prey uses defense mechanisms to avoid being eaten. I promise you that Belladonna will "punish" you for eating it in ways that lettuce does not. Our dear Mother Earth is not concerned about humans in the same way that some rather materially privileged humans pretend to be concerned about the environment. She plays the long game. My experience tells me that humanity is its own worst enemy.

I’d like to think of magic as a means of achieving something you don’t „deserve“ in the ordinary course of events, whether it’s transcendence or escaping your destined station in life, e.g. by acquiring wealth.

Maybe. It's just my opinion that we're told what we "deserve" as a means to control us. Magic is a way of taking personal control of our lives.